Sold diesel going back to petrol
Discussion
scarble said:
Misuse? More like using a vehicle as one might reasonably use a vehicle and in a way that some factor the durability engineers never envisaged is detrimental.
Durability testing can't cover everything and still be economically viable and indeed is often compromised by bean counters and politicking and automotive engineers, while they come close, aren't infallible and do sometimes miss something.
Like driving everywhere in top "for economy" rather than using an appropriate gear and eating a DMF in <40k. Durability testing can't cover everything and still be economically viable and indeed is often compromised by bean counters and politicking and automotive engineers, while they come close, aren't infallible and do sometimes miss something.
Or buying a car that needs a 60+mph run every 400miles and never taking it over 30mph and wondering why it needs a new DPF every 15k.
Or running such short trips that the car never gets up to temp.
zeppelin101 said:
powerstroke said:
JUST TO ADD MOST DIESEL PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO OVER LONG SERVICE INTERVALS ITS THAT SIMPLE!!!
You mean those service intervals which are set out by the manufacturer which has carried out thousands of hours of testing at way over the recommended intervals in the field and on the dyno?Right.
More diesel problems are caused by misuse than by the long service intervals.
And are to make a car look cheaper to run,
so if it doesn't get ideal running conditions or injector spray pattern isn't perfect or the air filter is dirty etc !!! Then what??? no one but no one will persuade me that regular oil changes isnt very cheap insurance against engine problems.. Been there and seen it and had few engine problems over my 30 years driving diesels seen plenty as a mechanic wrecked by dirty oil...
SilverSixer said:
HertsBiker said:
Petrol, auto, big non turbo motors are where it's at now if you want reliability. No DMF with auto, no turbo and associated pipe work. The bigger engine keeps it lower stress. Ok fuel consumption won't be so good but it'll last longer. And no DPF. So you pay more each month for fuel, call it an insurance policy if you like, for having something simpler and cheaper to maintain. Auto because it looks after the engine and transmission, even tyres and cv joints last longer.
This is exactly why I have a 2006 Mazda 6 2.0 petrol NA auto. Home servicing. No faults, ever. And also, to seal the deal, it has one other advantage you haven't mentioned in your list - chain cam engine. Blissful.My only regret is that I didn't get the 2.3, but then the 4 wheel drive system might throw a problem..........
I'd recommend a car like mine to anyone. And they are so cheap now that it's really, really silly.
macp said:
You got me looking at the mazda 3 sport which also looks good and the reviews are superb too.
My mrs had one and it's basically a Focus but with a more reliable engine. I really liked it as you could throw it around and it wouldn't roll over yet it was cheap to service and bulletproof compared to her RX-8.macp said:
SilverSixer said:
HertsBiker said:
Petrol, auto, big non turbo motors are where it's at now if you want reliability. No DMF with auto, no turbo and associated pipe work. The bigger engine keeps it lower stress. Ok fuel consumption won't be so good but it'll last longer. And no DPF. So you pay more each month for fuel, call it an insurance policy if you like, for having something simpler and cheaper to maintain. Auto because it looks after the engine and transmission, even tyres and cv joints last longer.
This is exactly why I have a 2006 Mazda 6 2.0 petrol NA auto. Home servicing. No faults, ever. And also, to seal the deal, it has one other advantage you haven't mentioned in your list - chain cam engine. Blissful.My only regret is that I didn't get the 2.3, but then the 4 wheel drive system might throw a problem..........
I'd recommend a car like mine to anyone. And they are so cheap now that it's really, really silly.
Just don't tell everyone as I want to keep Mazda prices low, at least until I've worked out how to kill the wife's Golf TDi whilst making it look like an accident and replace it with another Mazda 6 2.0 petrol auto!
As I DERV driver, I feel qualified to comment on my experience. Here's a few of the cars I've owned over the years;
Ford Orion 1.6DL - No engine problems
Discovery 300Tdi - No engine problems (don't ask about drivetrain...)
Passat 1.9TDi B5 - No engine problems in 7 years of ownership, £800 for DMF replacement)
Audi A6 1.9TDi C5- No engine problems as yet, in third year of ownership.
I have also owned several Jap petrols;
Honda CRX 1.6 16v (2 of them) - No engine problems
Honda CRX Vtec 1.6 16v - No engine problems
Honda Prelude 4WS 2.0 - No engine problems
Toyota MR2 2.0 - No engine problems
Renault Fuego 1.6TS (don't laugh) - Engine problems, electrics, set on fire, etc...
Fiat Coupe 16v Turbo - Engine problems!
Maybe there's a message here... Get a Japanese diesel?!
Ford Orion 1.6DL - No engine problems
Discovery 300Tdi - No engine problems (don't ask about drivetrain...)
Passat 1.9TDi B5 - No engine problems in 7 years of ownership, £800 for DMF replacement)
Audi A6 1.9TDi C5- No engine problems as yet, in third year of ownership.
I have also owned several Jap petrols;
Honda CRX 1.6 16v (2 of them) - No engine problems
Honda CRX Vtec 1.6 16v - No engine problems
Honda Prelude 4WS 2.0 - No engine problems
Toyota MR2 2.0 - No engine problems
Renault Fuego 1.6TS (don't laugh) - Engine problems, electrics, set on fire, etc...
Fiat Coupe 16v Turbo - Engine problems!
Maybe there's a message here... Get a Japanese diesel?!
Edited by Fastchas on Tuesday 16th September 14:14
Fastdruid said:
Like driving everywhere in top "for economy" rather than using an appropriate gear and eating a DMF in <40k.
Or buying a car that needs a 60+mph run every 400miles and never taking it over 30mph and wondering why it needs a new DPF every 15k.
Or running such short trips that the car never gets up to temp.
You may have a point on the DMF but not sure about the DPF, I don't think a modern white goods car (all diesels are white goods cars) should need frequent thrashing just to keep it running smoothly. A durability engineer might be able to tell that the car needs a DPF regen but how is Dorris supposed to know? The only reason "enthusiasts"* know is because automotive engineers have explained it to them and it's become semi-common knowledge in certain circles, but not the circles Dorris moves in, but then Dorris doesn't go anywhere these days because her car is f**ked.Or buying a car that needs a 60+mph run every 400miles and never taking it over 30mph and wondering why it needs a new DPF every 15k.
Or running such short trips that the car never gets up to temp.
*quotes because no true enthusiast drives a diesel
The Spruce goose said:
i owed 3 cars with the 1.8t engine
an 2000 audi 1.8 a4, an 2000 audi a 1.8t quattro and a 200 bhp seat ibiza 2005 1.8t.
All where/are sporty engines and enjoyable to use, not tvr sportiness but a great engine to thrash..
a bit old skool turbo boost, but great for making progress and with a miltek rewarding noise.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I owned a 1.8T in between an Alfa twin spark and a BMW straight 6, and by comparison whilst it performed well enough it was unwilling to rev, and sounded uncouth.an 2000 audi 1.8 a4, an 2000 audi a 1.8t quattro and a 200 bhp seat ibiza 2005 1.8t.
All where/are sporty engines and enjoyable to use, not tvr sportiness but a great engine to thrash..
a bit old skool turbo boost, but great for making progress and with a miltek rewarding noise.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Tuesday 16th September 01:17
zeppelin101 said:
You mean those service intervals which are set out by the manufacturer which has carried out thousands of hours of testing at way over the recommended intervals in the field and on the dyno?
Right.
More diesel problems are caused by misuse than by the long service intervals.
Those extended service intervals set by manufacturers to reduce their "cost per mile figures" with little regard for engine life after warranty, that's the ones! As quoted by an old school mate who now runs a VAG group dealership.Right.
More diesel problems are caused by misuse than by the long service intervals.
BFG TERRANO said:
zeppelin101 said:
You mean those service intervals which are set out by the manufacturer which has carried out thousands of hours of testing at way over the recommended intervals in the field and on the dyno?
Right.
More diesel problems are caused by misuse than by the long service intervals.
Those extended service intervals set by manufacturers to reduce their "cost per mile figures" with little regard for engine life after warranty, that's the ones! As quoted by an old school mate who now runs a VAG group dealership.Right.
More diesel problems are caused by misuse than by the long service intervals.
Purely to make them look cheaper to the first owner.
I agree. It's the same with petrols, too. All of the nicest, most reliable Land Rovers in the owner's club I'm part of are serviced twice a year / every 6k miles and going on what I've read so far, doing the same (well, an oil change) with the Mini JCW might reduce the possibility of timing chain problems (common fault on this model).
Mave said:
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I owned a 1.8T in between an Alfa twin spark and a BMW straight 6, and by comparison whilst it performed well enough it was unwilling to rev, and sounded uncouth.
i think it personnel, noise i agree it is a bit s
te, but worked very well in the audi.J4CKO said:
I wonder how long the diesel backlash will take to reach the dyed in the wool diesel punters, I know people who look at cars and rule out every petrol mode, yet do way under 10k a year ?
When will they cotton on that diesel motoring is not free as previously advertised and can actually be more expensive, as per the OP's experience.
A guy at work got sick of the bills his Passat diesel was generating, bought an Avensis, no problems so far, apart from it being gutless.
Surely the problem here was that he bought a Passat, not that it was diesel. He's then comparing it with a Toyota which is pretty much the most reliable brand out there.When will they cotton on that diesel motoring is not free as previously advertised and can actually be more expensive, as per the OP's experience.
A guy at work got sick of the bills his Passat diesel was generating, bought an Avensis, no problems so far, apart from it being gutless.
Devil2575 said:
J4CKO said:
I wonder how long the diesel backlash will take to reach the dyed in the wool diesel punters, I know people who look at cars and rule out every petrol mode, yet do way under 10k a year ?
When will they cotton on that diesel motoring is not free as previously advertised and can actually be more expensive, as per the OP's experience.
A guy at work got sick of the bills his Passat diesel was generating, bought an Avensis, no problems so far, apart from it being gutless.
Surely the problem here was that he bought a Passat, not that it was diesel. He's then comparing it with a Toyota which is pretty much the most reliable brand out there.When will they cotton on that diesel motoring is not free as previously advertised and can actually be more expensive, as per the OP's experience.
A guy at work got sick of the bills his Passat diesel was generating, bought an Avensis, no problems so far, apart from it being gutless.
macp said:
GoodDoc said:
macp said:
austinsmirk said:
I'll bite as a fan of the tractor fuel
20 years of driving diesels now. Not a single bit of bother over a highly diverse vehicle range.
Petrol and 20 ish mpg urban again chugging about. Not a chance.
There are a few people like yourself with good experiences of diesel but there still seems to be a great deal more complaining about failures and wondering why they are paying more for diesel fuel. 20 years of driving diesels now. Not a single bit of bother over a highly diverse vehicle range.
Petrol and 20 ish mpg urban again chugging about. Not a chance.
We go online and read a few horror stories and decide that this means all diesels are seconds from an expensive failure. We don't know how the person has driven it/maintained it and we have no context of how many owners have had failures, since people don't tend to post up about how their car has had no issues. The internet is great but it has a way of making us feel that something happens all the time even if it doesn't.
I'm considering going back to a Petrol when I eventually replace my current commuter car, a 2007 Ford Mondeo 2.2 TDCI. From what I can gather it seems that new petrol vehicles nowadays offer almost the same fuel economy as diesels, and are far less complex - no need for DMF, DPF, high pressure injection system etc..
I bought the Mondeo in 2008 when it was 6 months old and had covered 10,000 miles. I specifically selected a Diesel at the time as the better fuel economy appealed - 45mpg versus ~30 mpg for an equivalent petrol back then.
The Mondeo has now done 125,000 miles and I have to say it has been very reliable. Aside from routine servicing, the only repairs needed have been a new egr valve, a pair of front springs. My commute is 35 miles each way on A roads and dual carriageway, and I get a consistent 45 mpg. I like the characteristics of a Diesel engine (good economy, low down torque etc) but the increasing complexity of the latest Diesels is putting me off buying one in the future.
If I were to buy a Petrol next time around, say a 2.0 litre Mondeo, or a 2.0 litre BMW, what real world mpg figure could I expect on my commute? Has the petrol/diesel economy gap closed up significantly?
I bought the Mondeo in 2008 when it was 6 months old and had covered 10,000 miles. I specifically selected a Diesel at the time as the better fuel economy appealed - 45mpg versus ~30 mpg for an equivalent petrol back then.
The Mondeo has now done 125,000 miles and I have to say it has been very reliable. Aside from routine servicing, the only repairs needed have been a new egr valve, a pair of front springs. My commute is 35 miles each way on A roads and dual carriageway, and I get a consistent 45 mpg. I like the characteristics of a Diesel engine (good economy, low down torque etc) but the increasing complexity of the latest Diesels is putting me off buying one in the future.
If I were to buy a Petrol next time around, say a 2.0 litre Mondeo, or a 2.0 litre BMW, what real world mpg figure could I expect on my commute? Has the petrol/diesel economy gap closed up significantly?
Absolutely agree.
Also, the situation isn't helped by the fact that the majority of people are lazy numpties with regards to car ownership, would rather drive half a mile rather than walk, refuse to even consider public transport, regard a bicycle - an ideal transport solution to many urban solo journies - as the Devil's work, and when in said car drive in an unsympathetic inconsiderate manner both to their vehicle and to other road users.
Minor rant owner.
Also, the situation isn't helped by the fact that the majority of people are lazy numpties with regards to car ownership, would rather drive half a mile rather than walk, refuse to even consider public transport, regard a bicycle - an ideal transport solution to many urban solo journies - as the Devil's work, and when in said car drive in an unsympathetic inconsiderate manner both to their vehicle and to other road users.
Minor rant owner.
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