Youngsters not taking motorcycle test(s)

[shoestring7]

Fleegle said:

Julian64 said:

Rules will come in about ear defence, full body armour and airbags, and not only will it be unopposed, but there is a significant section of bikers who will welcome it. A section that didn't exist twenty years ago, or even ten for that matter.

It will be a long time before airbags become the norm. They may be used by racers presently, but how many shops are actually selling it? And how many of them are at an affordable price?

Edited by Fleegle on Tuesday 16th September 08:24

A high quality jacket with an effective airbag system costs no more than a normal high quality jacket by someone like Rukka:

http://www.motolegends.com/jackets/helite-airbag-t...

SS7

[shoestring7]

julian64 said:

black-k1 said:

julian64 said:

Silver993tt said:

julian64 said:

You don't need to do that as a government. You just need to plant the seed. Look at the thread on ear plugs for the way that bikers have become more risk averse than ten years ago.

That isn't anything to do with being risk averse, it's simply being more educated and in this example about a common cause of hearing damage.

I became exasperated on the other thread trying to tell people it wasn't a common cause of hearing loss, I don't think I want to have the same conversation on this thread.

Without wanting to restart the other thread over here, I would ask that you do one thing. Take a rough guess on the overall number posters in BB then look at how many in that thread state categorically that their hearing has been damaged as a result of riding motorcycles without hearing protection. It's a pretty big proportion!

Just one last comment on this and its not for the other thread because logic should stand on its own, and if it doesn't it has little relevence to the person receiving it. But the answer to your specific question is that I am a GP. I sit in a surgery day in and day out of 14000 patients for the last twenty odd years, I even did six months in an ear nose and throat clinic. Of course I get large quantities of hearing loss to investigate and decide whether to pass on to hearing clinics or specialists. I also get the results of the investigations done from those specialist. At no time in twenty years have I ever had a patient go deaf as the result of motorcycling. Motorcyclists aren't even highly represented in those I send.
So we have evidence from studies showing small amounts (<15mins) of high noise can cause permanent hearing loss, and on the other side, I haven't seen it represented to the extent it should be if the research is right.

The likely answer is that both are right, but the statistics are being misinterpreted. The damage is likey, for MOST, to be at a level which is incrementally very small, and although happening never gets to the level of affecting day to day hearing. Its difficult to prove because high frequency hearing loss with age seems to be a natural background process, and therefore to tease out the relevence is difficult. Probably made even more difficult by the few unfortunates who CAN seem to pin their hearing loss back to episodes of loud noise or barotrauma.

As you seem to prefer personal anecdote to any amount of research I'd like to mention my grandad who smoked >20 cigarettes a day from the age of 16 until the day he suddenly dropped dead at 90.

Therefore smoking doesn't do any harm.

SS7

[Fleegle]

shoestring7 said:

Fleegle said:

Julian64 said:

Rules will come in about ear defence, full body armour and airbags, and not only will it be unopposed, but there is a significant section of bikers who will welcome it. A section that didn't exist twenty years ago, or even ten for that matter.

It will be a long time before airbags become the norm. They may be used by racers presently, but how many shops are actually selling it? And how many of them are at an affordable price?

Edited by Fleegle on Tuesday 16th September 08:24

A high quality jacket with an effective airbag system costs no more than a normal high quality jacket by someone like Rukka:

http://www.motolegends.com/jackets/helite-airbag-t...

SS7

The point I was getting at is it isn't in every motorcycle dealers clothing dept. I have seen 1 suit in a larger dealers but no kits on the shelf. It's not commonplace

[ZesPak]

LoonR1 said:

Were last years figures artificially high as that demographic rushed to do their tests before the new test. Maybe compare to 2012 figures for a fairer comparison.

This.

Over here this is the case at least, though the OP talks about a very narrow age group (16-18) so not much leeway either way.
But, I have a couple of friends (25+) who rushed out to do their test before the rules changed (more training required, makes it a lot more expensive).

[shoestring7]

Fleegle said:

shoestring7 said:

Fleegle said:

Julian64 said:

Rules will come in about ear defence, full body armour and airbags, and not only will it be unopposed, but there is a significant section of bikers who will welcome it. A section that didn't exist twenty years ago, or even ten for that matter.

It will be a long time before airbags become the norm. They may be used by racers presently, but how many shops are actually selling it? And how many of them are at an affordable price?

Edited by Fleegle on Tuesday 16th September 08:24

A high quality jacket with an effective airbag system costs no more than a normal high quality jacket by someone like Rukka:

http://www.motolegends.com/jackets/helite-airbag-t...

SS7

The point I was getting at is it isn't in every motorcycle dealers clothing dept. I have seen 1 suit in a larger dealers but no kits on the shelf. It's not commonplace

It won't be long; maybe 5 or 10 years. Helite also make a version of their airbag vest for people who ride horses. In a few years its become the norm for riders competing in events where the horse gets off the ground to wear an airbag.

SS7

Edited by shoestring7 on Tuesday 16th September 11:09

[Silver993tt]

shoestring7 said:

It won't be long; maybe 5 or 10 years. Helite also make a version of their airbag vest for people who ride horses. In a few years its become the norm for riders competing in events where the horse gets off the grown to wear an airbag.

SS7

Agree. Body armour in jackets/trousers was a new concept at one point and now it's the norm. I think airbag jackets are a fantastic idea, anything that has the potential to reduce serious injury is very welcome IMO.

[Prof Prolapse]

julian64 said:

I became exasperated on the other thread trying to tell people it wasn't a common cause of hearing loss, I don't think I want to have the same conversation on this thread.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

It's quite simple, at sustained levels above 85dB your hearing is being damaged. The levels are about 100dB at ~70-80mph or as high as 115dB where you suffer irreparable damage in about 15 minutes.

The damage may not be common in the broadest sense, but it is incredibly common for people who don't wear earplugs.

[gareth h]

Back on subject, I visited the Milan bike show last year with a couple of 50 year old mates, we were probably the oldest there by about 30 years, our government is killing motorcycling with their legislation

[moanthebairns]

Youth unemployed at the highest level in decades.

The fact you cant get anything decent till your 24.

insurance costs

gear costs

training costs

pretty simple really.

Your 17, what do you pick, riding around in the pissing rain on a stty 125 or a car.

I've been riding almost 4 years (27) and I honestly can't remember the last time I met someone younger than me.

[jackh707]

I guess I must be lucky.
I'm 24, and I have 5 friends my age, or a year or 2 you see or older who all have full licences and have proper bikes, not 125s.

Although part of the reason we are friends is because we ride.

[julian64]

Prof Prolapse said:

julian64 said:

I became exasperated on the other thread trying to tell people it wasn't a common cause of hearing loss, I don't think I want to have the same conversation on this thread.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

It's quite simple, at sustained levels above 85dB your hearing is being damaged. The levels are about 100dB at ~70-80mph or as high as 115dB where you suffer irreparable damage in about 15 minutes.

The damage may not be common in the broadest sense, but it is incredibly common for people who don't wear earplugs.

Hmm my own personal stalker is back again. Posting on a thread is fine, we're all here for a chat. Continually quoting me on various threads and letting me know your thoughts, usually in a degrogatory manner is quite wearing.

You're probably a nice chap in real life, but your posting always sounds angry and condescending.

[MC Bodge]

Nigel Worc's said:

THE number of under-19s to complete a motorcycle test fell by over 90% following the introduction of new licence rules, latest government figures show....

....The drop follows new rules introduced in January 2013 restricting all 17-18-year-olds to 125cc whether or not they pass a test....

...Now, 17-18 year-olds are free to take a test but passing will only gain them a full licence for a 125, which they can already ride as a learner anyway. To ride anything bigger they must pass a test on a more powerful machine aged at least 19, whether or not they took the trouble of gaining a full licence for a 125.

Er, isn't this fairly obvious why the number of under 19s taking a bike test has fallen?

Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 17th September 09:54

[moanthebairns]

MC Bodge said:

Nigel Worc's said:

THE number of under-19s to complete a motorcycle test fell by over 90% following the introduction of new licence rules, latest government figures show....

....The drop follows new rules introduced in January 2013 restricting all 17-18-year-olds to 125cc whether or not they pass a test....

...Now, 17-18 year-olds are free to take a test but passing will only gain them a full licence for a 125, which they can already ride as a learner anyway. To ride anything bigger they must pass a test on a more powerful machine aged at least 19, whether or not they took the trouble of gaining a full licence for a 125.

Er, isn't this fairly obvious why the number of under 19s taking a bike test has fallen?

fewer jobs,
more youth unemployment,
less disposable income,
higher mortgages,
bigger initial deposits,
staying longer at home with the parents.

or it could be its very hard to bang a bird on the back of a 675, a in-line 4 would be easier but even then its simply not practical. Don't dare suggest a pan or a GS as we all know that they don't get their hole.

[Prof Prolapse]

julian64 said:

You're probably a nice chap in real life, but your posting always sounds angry and condescending.

You're right and I can see what you mean having read it. I apologise. I think I can be very poor at conveying my tone at times.

I have internet Aspergers I think. I'll try harder.

Pissflaps.

[julian64]

Prof Prolapse said:

julian64 said:

You're probably a nice chap in real life, but your posting always sounds angry and condescending.

You're right and I can see what you mean having read it. I apologise. I think I can be very poor at conveying my tone at times.

I have internet Aspergers I think. I'll try harder.

Pissflaps.

no probs

[LiamB]

Out of everyone I've ridden with my age, only a couple are going on to try and get full licences. I can't wait, would of had an A2 licence at 17 if they didn't change it just as I was turning 17.. I'll be doing mine next year no matter how hard they make it.

[MC Bodge]

moanthebairns said:

MC Bodge said:

Nigel Worc's said:

THE number of under-19s to complete a motorcycle test fell by over 90% following the introduction of new licence rules, latest government figures show....

....The drop follows new rules introduced in January 2013 restricting all 17-18-year-olds to 125cc whether or not they pass a test....

...Now, 17-18 year-olds are free to take a test but passing will only gain them a full licence for a 125, which they can already ride as a learner anyway. To ride anything bigger they must pass a test on a more powerful machine aged at least 19, whether or not they took the trouble of gaining a full licence for a 125.

Er, isn't this fairly obvious why the number of under 19s taking a bike test has fallen?

fewer jobs,
more youth unemployment,
less disposable income,
higher mortgages,
bigger initial deposits,
staying longer at home with the parents.

or it could be its very hard to bang a bird on the back of a 675, a in-line 4 would be easier but even then its simply not practical. Don't dare suggest a pan or a GS as we all know that they don't get their hole.

Er, read it again.

under 19s can take bike tests, but they are still going to be limited to a 125, whether they take the test or not.

Can anybody think of a reason why the number of under 19 year olds taking bike tests has "fell by over 90%"??

ps. I know of no under 19 year olds looking for mortgages and didn't know of any when I was under 19, almost 20 years ago.

[moanthebairns]

MC Bodge said:

moanthebairns said:

MC Bodge said:

Nigel Worc's said:

THE number of under-19s to complete a motorcycle test fell by over 90% following the introduction of new licence rules, latest government figures show....

....The drop follows new rules introduced in January 2013 restricting all 17-18-year-olds to 125cc whether or not they pass a test....

...Now, 17-18 year-olds are free to take a test but passing will only gain them a full licence for a 125, which they can already ride as a learner anyway. To ride anything bigger they must pass a test on a more powerful machine aged at least 19, whether or not they took the trouble of gaining a full licence for a 125.

Er, isn't this fairly obvious why the number of under 19s taking a bike test has fallen?

fewer jobs,
more youth unemployment,
less disposable income,
higher mortgages,
bigger initial deposits,
staying longer at home with the parents.

or it could be its very hard to bang a bird on the back of a 675, a in-line 4 would be easier but even then its simply not practical. Don't dare suggest a pan or a GS as we all know that they don't get their hole.

Er, read it again.

under 19s can take bike tests, but they are still going to be limited to a 125, whether they take the test or not.

Can anybody think of a reason why the number of under 19 year olds taking bike tests has "fell by over 90%"??

ps. I know of no under 19 year olds looking for mortgages and didn't know of any when I was under 19, almost 20 years ago.

I was taking the piss, I didn't read into it, I don't really care, I have my licence, its no longer my concern.

[btdk5]

Why does anyone care that not as many people are taking up learning to ride compared to a previous year?

You have your licence...

[Wyvern971]

btdk5 said:

Why does anyone care that not as many people are taking up learning to ride compared to a previous year?

You have your licence...

If the market for motorcycles shrinks, then they stop developing / making as many.

It might not affect you now, but 5-10 years down the line when there isn't a market for motorcycles (or rather a much smaller market) do you think that the manufacturers will put as much time/effort/money into it?

It'll lead to smaller manufacturers potentially going broke, larger manufacturers concentrating on different markets (i.e. smaller bikes in vast numbers) and the whole ecosystem worse off for it.

Obviously the above applies across the entire market, however you'd still see far fewer options available here and the ones you do see will have a price tag to reflect this.