Watch Ferrari/K'segg make the P1 look slow through Brunchen
Discussion
Koenigsegg One:1 vs Koenigsegg Agera R vs Ferrari LaFerrari XX mule vs McLaren P1
Koenigsegg Agera R vs McLaren P1
Raw footage:
P1
LaFerrari XX
Agera R
One:1
A few notes:
- McLaren's footage is from their (failed) record attempt
- LaFerrari XX mule is said to be running slicks
- Koenigsegg driver crashed the Agera R after missing his braking point after Dottinger Hohe/Tiergarten so is braking extra early in the One:1, allowing the slower cars to gain some
- No it's in no way conclusive, but seeing as this is the best McLaren could muster and the other three are by no means going full bore...
So, "a whole new thing", huh? I suppose we'll have to wait a while to see who comes out on top but the unquestionable winners so far is McLaren's PR team and the overbearing british press who managed to push a modified, heavy 12C with no e-diff as the ultimate track weapon. Well done. *slow clap*
Koenigsegg Agera R vs McLaren P1
Raw footage:
P1
LaFerrari XX
Agera R
One:1
A few notes:
- McLaren's footage is from their (failed) record attempt
- LaFerrari XX mule is said to be running slicks
- Koenigsegg driver crashed the Agera R after missing his braking point after Dottinger Hohe/Tiergarten so is braking extra early in the One:1, allowing the slower cars to gain some
- No it's in no way conclusive, but seeing as this is the best McLaren could muster and the other three are by no means going full bore...
So, "a whole new thing", huh? I suppose we'll have to wait a while to see who comes out on top but the unquestionable winners so far is McLaren's PR team and the overbearing british press who managed to push a modified, heavy 12C with no e-diff as the ultimate track weapon. Well done. *slow clap*
I'm not going to comment on which is actually faster (frankly I'd love to have any one of them and don't care) but a single clip of a short section of track is no way indicative of how fast a car is overall.
I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
Totally unfair comparison video.
If you look at the P1's exit you can clearly see he clips the slippery kerb on the way out and slightly loses the back end, therefore having to re-straighten and gain control of the car thus losing time.
Also not every car is being driven by the same driver. Each driver would have their own technique in how to take each corner and would have to adjust to the cars behaviour. One driver might be quicker on another corner than this one than the other cars.
The only way to fairly compare would to have all cars being driven by the same driver in the same conditions with standard tires...
If you look at the P1's exit you can clearly see he clips the slippery kerb on the way out and slightly loses the back end, therefore having to re-straighten and gain control of the car thus losing time.
Also not every car is being driven by the same driver. Each driver would have their own technique in how to take each corner and would have to adjust to the cars behaviour. One driver might be quicker on another corner than this one than the other cars.
The only way to fairly compare would to have all cars being driven by the same driver in the same conditions with standard tires...
Max_Torque said:
Wait a minute, a tread about Koenigsegg being "amazing, like, init" by Tom73. Hmmm, i smell a rat!
(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
Looked at the thread title, saw the poster, thought:
I like many will have my preferance as to which i like the most.
But as others have said, to base a whole laptime time. Or conclude one car is overall faster than another based on a single corner is daft.
To then have 1 of the 4 clearly make a mess of the corner , only makes the point less conclusive.
I accept its unlikely in this instance to get the same car on the same day driven by the same driver. So we have to accept their will be variables.
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
But as others have said, to base a whole laptime time. Or conclude one car is overall faster than another based on a single corner is daft.
To then have 1 of the 4 clearly make a mess of the corner , only makes the point less conclusive.
I accept its unlikely in this instance to get the same car on the same day driven by the same driver. So we have to accept their will be variables.
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Edited by mikebradford on Tuesday 16th September 13:16
Fastdruid said:
I'm not going to comment on which is actually faster (frankly I'd love to have any one of them and don't care) but a single clip of a short section of track is no way indicative of how fast a car is overall.
I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
The P1 is going full bore. The others are not. It could easily be a full second behind the One:1 if it weren't allowed to catch up with a later braking point. And even in this favorable comparison it's still more than half a second behind. Of course this massive gap will have implications on the rest of the track. From all the footage that's been published it barely keeps it together in the corners due to the useless brake steer (who would have thunk that torque vectoring would prove useful and not so easily substituted by a glorified ESP? Max?) so not a lot of room for improvement either. I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
Face it - you've been suckered in by Chris & co and just a physics would suggest it doesn't have anything for lighter, more powerful machines with more rubber on the road and a PROPER e-diff. It's good for a bragging session and some drifiting but in the context of being a "whole new thing" it's all smoke and mirrors. A 12C with some extra hype behind it.
Max_Torque said:
Wait a minute, a tread about Koenigsegg being "amazing, like, init" by Tom73. Hmmm, i smell a rat!
(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
Personal attacks serves an argument well, especially coming from a McLaren employee who has been even more active (as a nay sayer) in Koenigsegg threads than I have. And look here you are doing yet another cameo, what a shocker.(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
(don't worry I do. You go ahead and bite away at this account though ;-)
zeppelin101 said:
A more relevant comparison to the XX Ferrari would be the P1 GTR when it surfaces. Not sure how comparing the super spastic Ferrari to the mildly-spastic Mclaren is fair.
It's still painfully slow compared to an 2015 Agera R mule on regular pump gas, sporting Cup tires and a tricked out One:1 suspension. If all Koenigsegg has to do to keep their offering up to speed is to swap tires and fit it with a new set of dampers, then perhaps the P1 wasn't such a great achievement after all? I suggested as much back when Chris did his review too, saying Koenigsegg was insulated against the market due to their low volume and flexibility. Got mocked for it by a certain McLaren employee/PR guy in this thread (who also stated torque vectoring was pretty much useless compared to "brake steer").The Ferrari XX is probably there for comparing with One:1 and Agera R. The P1 possibly fills a purpose by showing how much further ahead, or "newer things", the others are.
mikebradford said:
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Surely there isn't. That's from their record attempt and you wont find a faster footage. Feel free to compare with the one where it stays planted but isn't nearly as quick.Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Edited by mikebradford on Tuesday 16th September 13:16
http://gfycat.com/ThriftySelfishArachnid
They are forced to be this close to the limit to be even remotely fast.
mikebradford said:
I like many will have my preferance as to which i like the most.
But as others have said, to base a whole laptime time. Or conclude one car is overall faster than another based on a single corner is daft.
To then have 1 of the 4 clearly make a mess of the corner , only makes the point less conclusive.
I accept its unlikely in this instance to get the same car on the same day driven by the same driver. So we have to accept their will be variables.
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
What he saidBut as others have said, to base a whole laptime time. Or conclude one car is overall faster than another based on a single corner is daft.
To then have 1 of the 4 clearly make a mess of the corner , only makes the point less conclusive.
I accept its unlikely in this instance to get the same car on the same day driven by the same driver. So we have to accept their will be variables.
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Edited by mikebradford on Tuesday 16th September 13:16
Tommy! Tommy! Tommy! I expected better from you on this. To try and compare these cars like this is so open to error as to be laughable and you know this. Nothing of meaning can be extrapolated from this video. Also K'segg has failed to proclaim a time. If they are in full attack mode which is what you appear to be indicating here then where is the big "We have broken the Ring lap record" announcement.
One corner on a track with as many as the Ring has indicates nothing
Max_Torque said:
Wait a minute, a tread about Koenigsegg being "amazing, like, init" by Tom73. Hmmm, i smell a rat!
(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
But threads on 'living with excess oestrogen' aren't going to be as entertaining. (seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
Tom73 said:
Look, looook....I've prooooooved that the car I w
k myself silly over is really fast. I've got clips and everything, which QED means that it might be faster than some other cars, on a different day, with different tyres, and different drivers.
Christian, can I give you a blowjob? I think you're fab.
Edited for accuracyk myself silly over is really fast. I've got clips and everything, which QED means that it might be faster than some other cars, on a different day, with different tyres, and different drivers.Christian, can I give you a blowjob? I think you're fab.
Tom73 said:
Fastdruid said:
I'm not going to comment on which is actually faster (frankly I'd love to have any one of them and don't care) but a single clip of a short section of track is no way indicative of how fast a car is overall.
I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
The P1 is going full bore. The others are not. It could easily be a full second behind the One:1 if it weren't allowed to catch up with a later braking point. And even in this favorable comparison it's still more than half a second behind. Of course this massive gap will have implications on the rest of the track. From all the footage that's been published it barely keeps it together in the corners due to the useless brake steer (who would have thunk that torque vectoring would prove useful and not so easily substituted by a glorified ESP? Max?) so not a lot of room for improvement either. I know from having played lots and lots of video games against my own ghost that even with the same car a minor mistake when "going for it" can result in a few car lengths lost let alone when against different cars with different strengths.
Face it - you've been suckered in by Chris & co and just a physics would suggest it doesn't have anything for lighter, more powerful machines with more rubber on the road and a PROPER e-diff. It's good for a bragging session and some drifiting but in the context of being a "whole new thing" it's all smoke and mirrors. A 12C with some extra hype behind it.
Max_Torque said:
Wait a minute, a tread about Koenigsegg being "amazing, like, init" by Tom73. Hmmm, i smell a rat!
(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
Personal attacks serves an argument well, especially coming from a McLaren employee who has been even more active (as a nay sayer) in Koenigsegg threads than I have. And look here you are doing yet another cameo, what a shocker.(seriously, if you want to be part of pistonheads, it would be nice if you might perhaps consider posting on some other subjects as well ;-)
(don't worry I do. You go ahead and bite away at this account though ;-)
zeppelin101 said:
A more relevant comparison to the XX Ferrari would be the P1 GTR when it surfaces. Not sure how comparing the super spastic Ferrari to the mildly-spastic Mclaren is fair.
It's still painfully slow compared to an 2015 Agera R mule on regular pump gas, sporting Cup tires and a tricked out One:1 suspension. If all Koenigsegg has to do to keep their offering up to speed is to swap tires and fit it with a new set of dampers, then perhaps the P1 wasn't such a great achievement after all? I suggested as much back when Chris did his review too, saying Koenigsegg was insulated against the market due to their low volume and flexibility. Got mocked for it by a certain McLaren employee/PR guy in this thread (who also stated torque vectoring was pretty much useless compared to "brake steer").The Ferrari XX is probably there for comparing with One:1 and Agera R. The P1 possibly fills a purpose by showing how much further ahead, or "newer things", the others are.
mikebradford said:
But if an arguement is to be made, at least try and get the facts its based on as near to 100% as possible.
Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Surely there isn't. That's from their record attempt and you wont find a faster footage. Feel free to compare with the one where it stays planted but isn't nearly as quick.Surely theirs a better cleaner P1 cornering effort available of the net, to splice into those gifts.
Its possible its still not the fatsest through that section. But if you dont want people crying foul. Dont put yourself in a position to have your point torn apart.
Edited by mikebradford on Tuesday 16th September 13:16
http://gfycat.com/ThriftySelfishArachnid
They are forced to be this close to the limit to be even remotely fast.
BTW, you'll find the rest of the PH forum over here>>>>> and here<<<<< and here^^^^^ you can post on other subjects if you want, and maybe that will make you sound more like a normal human being and less of a one tracked, fanboy obsessive. There are some great, fun, funny, interesting and even unsual threads to choose from as well. Take a look, you might like it ;-)
Streetrod said:
What he said
Tommy! Tommy! Tommy! I expected better from you on this. To try and compare these cars like this is so open to error as to be laughable and you know this. Nothing of meaning can be extrapolated from this video. Also K'segg has failed to proclaim a time. If they are in full attack mode which is what you appear to be indicating here then where is the big "We have broken the Ring lap record" announcement.
One corner on a track with as many as the Ring has indicates nothing
Now we have a party. Though I feel like I've proven you wrong too many times to even offer a serious response to your "theories" at this point. After all you're the guy clinging to a Huayra Top Gear record set on slicks and scoffed at the One:1 when the news broke. Tommy! Tommy! Tommy! I expected better from you on this. To try and compare these cars like this is so open to error as to be laughable and you know this. Nothing of meaning can be extrapolated from this video. Also K'segg has failed to proclaim a time. If they are in full attack mode which is what you appear to be indicating here then where is the big "We have broken the Ring lap record" announcement.
One corner on a track with as many as the Ring has indicates nothing
And I specifically wrote that the Koenigsegg driver was being overly cautious which is very apparent in the raw footage. I don't ask for much but you could take the time to read through the OP and click the links before commenting.
And yes, you can certainly extrapolate a ton from this.
Max_Torque said:
Seriously now, change the record. We get it, you like K'eggs, we get that now!
BTW, you'll find the rest of the PH forum over here>>>>> and here<<<<< and here^^^^^ you can post on other subjects if you want, and maybe that will make you sound more like a normal human being and less of a one tracked, fanboy obsessive. There are some great, fun, funny, interesting and even unsual threads to choose from as well. Take a look, you might like it ;-)
We get it. You like McLaren and made a bunch of claims which were all proven wrong and now that you cannot support your argument with quasi mumbo jumbo anymore you've resorted to all out ad hominem.BTW, you'll find the rest of the PH forum over here>>>>> and here<<<<< and here^^^^^ you can post on other subjects if you want, and maybe that will make you sound more like a normal human being and less of a one tracked, fanboy obsessive. There are some great, fun, funny, interesting and even unsual threads to choose from as well. Take a look, you might like it ;-)
Add a few more exclamation point for impact etc.
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