Grand Prix: The killer years
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
They were no better nor worse than marshalls elsewhere at the time.
Did anyone notice that they used a shot of James Garner's car being pulled out of Manaco Harbour from the film "Grand Prix" as an illustration of the poor safety standards of the day?
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
Drivers have gone for an unplanned dip in the Monaco harbour though, and in the absence of actual footage it's just about justifiable.Did anyone notice that they used a shot of James Garner's car being pulled out of Manaco Harbour from the film "Grand Prix" as an illustration of the poor safety standards of the day?
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
First time round I recorded it but then put off watching it for some time, in the end it wasn't a tasteless or sensationalist as I'd feared. The Jim Clark section is positively elegiac.
There is actual (if a bit distant) footage of Ascari's Ferrari going into the harbour. Pity they didn't find that.
I am finding more and more in documetaries that footage or stills from Hollywood movies are being used to depict actual events in documentaries. I have no real problem with this PROVIDED this is made clear at some point in the programme.
I am finding more and more in documetaries that footage or stills from Hollywood movies are being used to depict actual events in documentaries. I have no real problem with this PROVIDED this is made clear at some point in the programme.
Eric Mc said:
There is actual (if a bit distant) footage of Ascari's Ferrari going into the harbour. Pity they didn't find that.
I am finding more and more in documetaries that footage or stills from Hollywood movies are being used to depict actual events in documentaries. I have no real problem with this PROVIDED this is made clear at some point in the programme.
There were quite a few clips from the filming of GP (one with Garner in full race overalls and another showing a driver putting on a helmet with a camera mounted on it) in there too, I suspect a lot of 'behind the scenes' footage of drivers was available from that film, but not elsewhere.I am finding more and more in documetaries that footage or stills from Hollywood movies are being used to depict actual events in documentaries. I have no real problem with this PROVIDED this is made clear at some point in the programme.
M
Thinking about it, if you were to make a motor-racing drama nowadays you would have to throw in a lot of fake drama with spectacular fiery crashes and fatalities. In fact, I can't even imagine a modern-day F1 film with today's corporate automatons and petulant brats. In 1966, what you saw in 'Grand Prix' was a pretty accurate reflection of real life (Eve-Marie Saint's hysterical scenery-chewing notwithstanding).
Apparently there were shed-loads of pre-production footage shot at various tracks which was never used, and is supposedly still in a vault somewhere...
Apparently there were shed-loads of pre-production footage shot at various tracks which was never used, and is supposedly still in a vault somewhere...
Yes, the movie "Grand Prix" reflects fairly well the general ambiance of the GP scene in the mid 1960s. But that does not mean they should be using images from it in documentaries about REAL GP racing of that era UNLESS they make it clear it is dramatised footage or stills.
Likewise, the Battle of Britain documentary "Into the Blue" almost exclusively relies in footage shot for the 1968 movie "Battle of Britain" - which, whilst a movie I like, is not adequate or suitable for use in a documentary on the real events.
Likewise, the Battle of Britain documentary "Into the Blue" almost exclusively relies in footage shot for the 1968 movie "Battle of Britain" - which, whilst a movie I like, is not adequate or suitable for use in a documentary on the real events.
Eric Mc said:
Did anyone notice that they used a shot of James Garner's car being pulled out of Manaco Harbour from the film "Grand Prix" as an illustration of the poor safety standards of the day?
Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
The start had a big error too, Monza 1961 narrator talking very personally about Wolfgang von Tripps and they used in car shots of team mate Phil Hill, nothing of von Tripps.Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.
Plus, some of the accidents shown - especially in the opening sequence, were not Grand Prix related.
The schmozzle at the start of the 1966 Indianapolis 500 had nothing to do with the "Grand Prix" part of the title and it had nothing to do with "The Killer Years" part of the title either as no one was seriously injured in that specific incident.
The schmozzle at the start of the 1966 Indianapolis 500 had nothing to do with the "Grand Prix" part of the title and it had nothing to do with "The Killer Years" part of the title either as no one was seriously injured in that specific incident.
Eric Mc said:
Which incident
Bandini 1967?
Schlesser 1968?
Williamson 1973?
To be frank, in most of these cases the marshals were too poorly equipped to be able to tackle a situation like the ones they all had to confront.
Compare those incidents with the Berger Imola crash of 1989.
The exploding car was Jo SchlesserBandini 1967?
Schlesser 1968?
Williamson 1973?
To be frank, in most of these cases the marshals were too poorly equipped to be able to tackle a situation like the ones they all had to confront.
Compare those incidents with the Berger Imola crash of 1989.
james_tigerwoods said:
The exploding car was Jo Schlesser
I know that. You seemed to be referring to two incidents (Williamson - where the marshals just stood there and Schlesser - where the car exploded because of its magnesium construction).In both cases the marshals were completely ill equipped to deal with the ensuing fires - which was why they could only stand and look.
Williamson's accident was exacerbated because the only fire truck was stationed in the pits and it was made travel the long way around the circuit to get to the accident scene. It was deemed too dangerous to have the fire engine travelling against the flow of the traffic on the circuit.
What never occurred to the race organisers was to red flag the race. But back then, communication between the marshal posts and the clerks of the course were very patchy. So trying to get a clear and unambiguous communication to all the marshal posts and, most importantly, to all the cars, was a lot more difficult than it would be today.
That is one of the reasons why races tended to continue even if there was a serious accident. It was deemed the safest thing to do.
Eric Mc said:
james_tigerwoods said:
The exploding car was Jo Schlesser
I know that. You seemed to be referring to two incidents (Williamson - where the marshals just stood there and Schlesser - where the car exploded because of its magnesium construction).In both cases the marshals were completely ill equipped to deal with the ensuing fires - which was why they could only stand and look.
Williamson's accident was exacerbated because the only fire truck was stationed in the pits and it was made travel the long way around the circuit to get to the accident scene. It was deemed too dangerous to have the fire engine travelling against the flow of the traffic on the circuit.
What never occurred to the race organisers was to red flag the race. But back then, communication between the marshal posts and the clerks of the course were very patchy. So trying to get a clear and unambiguous communication to all the marshal posts and, most importantly, to all the cars, was a lot more difficult than it would be today.
That is one of the reasons why races tended to continue even if there was a serious accident. It was deemed the safest thing to do.
Neither incident looked good and it feels foreign that it took so many deaths to make the sport safe - but it was a different time and arguably without them, where would motorsport be now?
Yes - hindsight makes everything look obvious.
Although Stewart gets the credit for bringing about the changes that made motor sport much safer, others played a part too. Louis Stanley (for all his faults) did a lot in the late 1960s and Jo Bonnier (who sadly didn't survive his racing career) was also instrumental in some of the early improvements.
Although Stewart gets the credit for bringing about the changes that made motor sport much safer, others played a part too. Louis Stanley (for all his faults) did a lot in the late 1960s and Jo Bonnier (who sadly didn't survive his racing career) was also instrumental in some of the early improvements.
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