Sporty Diesel

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Discussion

ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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tjlees said:
cerb4.5lee said:
ORD said:
tjlees said:
...the 330d easily hits the mark, out handling the Porsche Boxster for instance - wet or dry (see autocar 27 Jun 2012 & 21 Nov 2012)
laugh
This has to be up there with "junior supercar" (1 series) and "Ferrari beater" (335d) in the realm of BMW-love-ins.
I highly rate the 330d and for me it was one of the best all round cars I have experienced but I always genuinely thought the Boxster was meant to be the elite when it comes to handling so that does surprise me...or the Boxster is seriously over rated.
The boxster is an excellent five star sports car - even though the OH didn't like it preferred the mini fking roadster jcw. mad

It just the world of mass produced bmer diesels have significantly moved on ... even the 320D, which is a spritely 1.5t, is only 2ish sec behind the Boxster S on the track but a good 160bhp down on power.

The Boxster is also about looks, sound and build quality over any 3 series.

However having driven these cars - both they are definitely sporty, and in the right hands, the 330D would leave a equally driven Boxster S behind on the twistys. Must because like the GTR 1.7t car, which has same downforce as an F1 car ... not wink
I have a fair amount of experience driving the current 320d and have no idea how that chassis could be described as 'sporty'. It is wallowy, eager to understeer and inspires almost no confidence. It's a billion miles away from a Boxster, although it does piss on the competition from MB and Audi, to be fair.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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theshrew said:
Thanks for all the answers. I think this pretty much confirms my worse fears.

Every car I've had has been a hot hatch or something sports ish Celica Gt4 Subaru etc. I just don't like driving something more run of the mill spec. I really don't want to get rid of my Focus but the fuel bill would end up being crazy.

I suppose the best thing to do is to get out and drive some of these smokers and see what's what.

Other options are to keep the car

Buy a 2nd bike for the work run. That will be cost effective but bloody cold.
Buy a old banger after all it's only going to sit in what looks like a very busy car park getting the doors dinged etc. That would p1ss me right off on my pride and joy.
Don't lose heart just yet. Test drive a 330d and see what you think. The E90 325d must also be worth a look. Other peoples opinions are just that, opinions not facts. Some people on PH would die before admitting that a diesel is any good. A mate of mine has had a 2002 BMW 330d Sport and he loves it. It's also not had any of the diesel issues that some will tell you always crop up. Also considering it only has 184 bhp it's got a decent turn of speed.
A test drive can't hurt, you never know you might be pleasantly supprised. Also depending on budget what about an Alpina B3?

Hudson

1,857 posts

186 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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123D. My other half has the coupe version and it's pretty good to drive, feels a bit disconnected at times but still.

twin turbo as well for extra office willy waving tongue out

edit: 5/6 years old, that'll learn me to read the OP. Still worth a punt if you have the budget!

daemon

35,720 posts

196 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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Mr2Mike said:
hammerrr7 said:
Can't go wrong with the BMW 330D
Though the 330D itself can go quite wrong.
+1

and isnt "that" economical.

Devil2575

13,400 posts

187 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2019...
Meant to say D3.

Evo rate it as a drivers car.

NateWM

1,684 posts

178 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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Sorry if it's been mentioned, but how about running two cars?

Diesel another for the commute, and a cheap Petrol for fun, DC2 ITR's are in budget.

samyalson

44 posts

116 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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theshrew said:
Its looking likely that im going to have to start doing a quiet a few extra miles each week to get to work ( if i get the job ) Sadly that means my low 20mpg petrol guzzler is going to have to go furious

I really really dont want to go turn into a dull old fecker over night.

So can you lot recomend me something thats on the sporty / hot hatch type of direction, at cars 5-6 years old.
Sporty diesel? Doesn't exist I'm afraid.

By the way, cars don't make the person, maybe stop being so bothered what people think about you?

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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Hudson said:
123D. My other half has the coupe version and it's pretty good to drive, feels a bit disconnected at times but still.

twin turbo as well for extra office willy waving tongue out

edit: 5/6 years old, that'll learn me to read the OP. Still worth a punt if you have the budget!
One of my colleagues has one of these. The first twin turbo diesel production car, was it? The willy waving ceases slightly when you notice that it only makes 201bhp, despite having two bloody turbos. Still, far better than the ubiquitous and st x20d.

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
daemon said:
Mr2Mike said:
hammerrr7 said:
Can't go wrong with the BMW 330D
Though the 330D itself can go quite wrong.
+1

and isnt "that" economical.
My manager had an E46 318i new as a company car that was an utter pile of unreliable st, he swapped that for a new E90 320d that wasn't without issues either and the east European shovel engine bought himself an E60 525i that as of tonight hasn't moved for 2 weeks due to the regulation cooling issues which means the antifreeze that should be in the engine is currently on the floor underneath it.

My conclusions are the BMWs are expensive, unreliable, high maintenance, ste that I'd no sooner use for a long commute than I would a lame horse. They must have a gloved had come out the dash and stroke the drivers off like Ranger Rovers have.

My small, Japanese, hatch back might not be the last word in driving pleasure, but at least it will work and won't put my job at risk


tjlees

1,382 posts

236 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
blank said:
Surely "handling" is 99.9% subjective? You could try and quantify it by measuring roll/pitch/yaw rates, steering response etc but ultimately it comes down to how a car feels.

Car A could be faster than Car B around a track. Or quicker through a tight slalom of cones. But that doesn't mean it handles better.

A 330D touring may well handle better than a Boxster in your opinion, but I think you'd be very much in a minority.
Nope. subjectively Autocar gave the Boxster the same rating as the 330D in the handling department.

Feel is different - yes, no contest the Boxster has it - even through the electric steering as long as you have the sports chrono on IMHO - though I think the 997 is better again.

The 330D has quick response, easy maneuverability, and good high-speed driving and apparently a giggle - all part of being sporty.

Is 330D a sports car - not really - it probably needs two doors and two seats for that.

SlowStig

839 posts

170 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
daemon said:
Mr2Mike said:
hammerrr7 said:
Can't go wrong with the BMW 330D
Though the 330D itself can go quite wrong.
+1

and isnt "that" economical.
As a current(and thankfully soon not to be) owner of an e90 330d M-Sport, this is my experience:

40Mpg, doesn't really move much either way including long runs on the motorway

HORRENDOUSLY unreliable, in 6 months of ownership(a month I was away for) it had the following:
>ECU Work
>Swirl Flaps
>Inlet manifold
>New Clutch
>Window Motor failures
>Multitude of brake problems
>Replacement brakes all round inc handbrake shoes
>Gearbox problems
>Wheels buckled

It has been a nightmare if I am honest and I have lost money to get rid of it. The total so far on visits were 8 visits to the dealership, twice on the back of a lorry.


When it works, I was very impressed with the performance and general package of the car but if you are spending time on a motorway, the M-Sport suspension gets irritating but without it, the handling isn't as good.

delboy735

1,656 posts

201 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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blank

3,438 posts

187 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
tjlees said:
blank said:
Surely "handling" is 99.9% subjective? You could try and quantify it by measuring roll/pitch/yaw rates, steering response etc but ultimately it comes down to how a car feels.

Car A could be faster than Car B around a track. Or quicker through a tight slalom of cones. But that doesn't mean it handles better.

A 330D touring may well handle better than a Boxster in your opinion, but I think you'd be very much in a minority.
Nope. subjectively Autocar gave the Boxster the same rating as the 330D in the handling department.

Feel is different - yes, no contest the Boxster has it - even through the electric steering as long as you have the sports chrono on IMHO - though I think the 997 is better again.

The 330D has quick response, easy maneuverability, and good high-speed driving and apparently a giggle - all part of being sporty.

Is 330D a sports car - not really - it probably needs two doors and two seats for that.
Well for one subjective is, as the name suggests, subjective so it's down to the opinion of the driver(s).

And those ratings will consider the type of car they are testing. So a '5 star' SUV may handle brilliantly for an SUV but they're not saying it handles as well as a '5 star' roadster.

Kolbenkopp

2,343 posts

150 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
Hm. I'd do the suns first, isn't the break even point for Diesel pretty high in the UK?

20 mpg of course not that good if you need to drive a lot. I'd look at a modern petrol warm hatch, perhaps a 6 speed Swift Sport? Or, if Diesel it is, I'd want something I would not mind spending the money on once the big bills come. Something like this:



anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
Willy Nilly said:
My manager had an E46 318i new as a company car that was an utter pile of unreliable st, he swapped that for a new E90 320d that wasn't without issues either and the east European shovel engine bought himself an E60 525i that as of tonight hasn't moved for 2 weeks due to the regulation cooling issues which means the antifreeze that should be in the engine is currently on the floor underneath it.

My conclusions are the BMWs are expensive, unreliable, high maintenance, ste that I'd no sooner use for a long commute than I would a lame horse. They must have a gloved had come out the dash and stroke the drivers off like Ranger Rovers have.

My small, Japanese, hatch back might not be the last word in driving pleasure, but at least it will work and won't put my job at risk
Funny how the expensive/unreliable/high maintenance ste are one of the most successful car companies in existence. I reckon your manager has been a bit unlucky..

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
Willy Nilly said:
My manager had an E46 318i new as a company car that was an utter pile of unreliable st, he swapped that for a new E90 320d that wasn't without issues either and the east European shovel engine bought himself an E60 525i that as of tonight hasn't moved for 2 weeks due to the regulation cooling issues which means the antifreeze that should be in the engine is currently on the floor underneath it.

My conclusions are the BMWs are expensive, unreliable, high maintenance, ste that I'd no sooner use for a long commute than I would a lame horse. They must have a gloved had come out the dash and stroke the drivers off like Ranger Rovers have.

My small, Japanese, hatch back might not be the last word in driving pleasure, but at least it will work and won't put my job at risk
Funny how the expensive/unreliable/high maintenance ste are one of the most successful car companies in existence. I reckon your manager has been a bit unlucky..
They are successful because they are good at selling and marketing aspirational cars not because they build reliable ones.

Isn't it nice when things just work?

RobM77

35,349 posts

233 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
Definitely buy one of the front wheel drive options mentioned. The balance in the corners and purity of steering will blow you away. The non-linear throttle maps, brake pedal and steering response aren't just superficially sporty, they're the real deal. If companies like Lotus, Noble and Pagani knew what they were doing, they'd be building nose heavy front drive cars as well with non-linear responses and weak damping.

Oh, and don't forget, any car with fashionable 'premium' marketing is automatically rubbish because the marketing department try too hard and it influences the engineers to build bad cars with the same superficial values (because marketing men are also engineers, as everyone knows). What you need is a car that's cheap, with no flashy marketing gimmicks that handles well at up to 6/10ths (because everything faster than that is scary and dangerous). Naturally, cheap cars are built out of high quality components; more expensive cars are all profit and no substance (again, it's all just marketing).

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 19th September 21:44

Leins

9,411 posts

147 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
A 335d makes for an excellent "GT" car, in that it will cover huge motorway distances in comfort, with effortless levels of shove

However, my definition of sporty is the one that drags you out of bed early on a Saturday morning demanding you take it for a run somewhere, and no diesel has ever managed that with me

theshrew

Original Poster:

6,008 posts

183 months

Friday 19th September 2014
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samyalson said:
Sporty diesel? Doesn't exist I'm afraid.

By the way, cars don't make the person, maybe stop being so bothered what people think about you?
I don't see how me wanting a particular type of car makes me worried about what people think. Maybe it's just because that's what I like / want ?

Hudson

1,857 posts

186 months

Friday 19th September 2014
quotequote all
Baryonyx said:
One of my colleagues has one of these. The first twin turbo diesel production car, was it? The willy waving ceases slightly when you notice that it only makes 201bhp, despite having two bloody turbos. Still, far better than the ubiquitous and st x20d.
I can't think of another apart from that Saab one, the TTiD i think? Both made the same sort of power.

I don't want to use the "T" word and open that can of worms but you do get a nice kick up the arse when planting it, opinions on diesels aside it's no slouch. It did my Golf in a straight line, and that had 204bhp.

Edited by Hudson on Friday 19th September 22:09