Who came out of Scots Referendum with enhanced credit?
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
1. Gordon Brown. Don't what new medication they gave him but by jingo it was good stuff.
2. Jim Murphy. Never heard of him before, now seems a decent bloke.
Anyone else?
Two Labourites! Need to watch a fewTop Gears to reprogram self.
Gordon Brown! Really? His proposals are already being backtracked against. He's being viewed tonight by many in Scotland as a quisling.2. Jim Murphy. Never heard of him before, now seems a decent bloke.
Anyone else?
Two Labourites! Need to watch a fewTop Gears to reprogram self.
As is:
Jim Murphy, the a
hole that he is; how can you attend university for 9 years and not qualify/graduate?As a die hard Yes man it pains me to say David Cameron has played a blinder; might not save his own arse amongst his party faithful, however he has neutered Scotland and the Labour party in one fell swoop; fair f
ks to him.Alex Salmond; say what you like about him, he was Statesman-like throughout the campaign (bar the first debate with Darling; which I believe was a ploy given how he hammered him in the second debate) and had the decency to fall on his sword. Should definitely have adopted a negative campaign on reflection, it would arguably have been more productive; the fact he didn't speaks volumes of the man and I say that as never having been a fan of his. Quite probably the seminal Scottish politician; only John Smith came close IMHO. Henry McLeish would have been right up there but for the expenses scandal.
Nicola Sturgeon was the standout for me; she gave Alistair Carmichael his dinner early doors in one of the very early TV debates and I never saw him again until polling closed last night! Considering he was sent up here to negate Yes in a wave of publicity, he disappeared rapidly!
Former Tory leader Annabel Goldie is well respected here also, despite playing a minimal part in proceedings. Unusual for many in Scotland to voice admiration for a former Tory leader.
Much as I loathe Brown his speech was absolutely amazing and I'd agree that Cameron is playing a clever game of chess with regard to the West Lothian question.
Can't agree about Salmond though, he is no statesman. He is a shifty and evasive snake oil salesman who rarely answers a question, I can see why that makes him a very capable politician (!) but I am glad the Scottish people saw through the SNP lies and obfuscation.
Can't agree about Salmond though, he is no statesman. He is a shifty and evasive snake oil salesman who rarely answers a question, I can see why that makes him a very capable politician (!) but I am glad the Scottish people saw through the SNP lies and obfuscation.
Jimboka said:
Cameron
Playing the long game
Personally I find it difficult to believe he planned this. I think he offered the referendum on a yes no basis based on an arrogance that it would be firmly rejected and what was already in the Scotland Act as additional powers would be sufficient.Playing the long game
When it turned out not to be going that way in the final couple weeks I thnk he panicked.
In my view the issue was greater than party politics and there should have been regular "all three party leader" sessions throughout the campaign, extolling the virtues of being together. Instead we got complacency from the three of them until it was looking dodgy.
However, he has seen a sudden opportunity to take the legs out of labour and he has gone for it - he's not totally blinkered then. I really hope it works out for him and the west Lothian question is put to bed once and for all.
The whole thing looks like being a catalyst for long overdue change in the way the country is governed, fair play to the Nats for that. I hope it isn't kicked into the long grass again and quietly forgot about, which is Millibands plan I believe.
stevoknevo said:
As a die hard Yes man it pains me to say David Cameron has played a blinder; might not save his own arse amongst his party faithful, however he has neutered Scotland and the Labour party in one fell swoop; fair fks to him.
Alex Salmond; say what you like about him, he was Statesman-like throughout the campaign (bar the first debate with Darling; which I believe was a ploy given how he hammered him in the second debate) and had the decency to fall on his sword. Should definitely have adopted a negative campaign on reflection, it would arguably have been more productive; the fact he didn't speaks volumes of the man and I say that as never having been a fan of his. Quite probably the seminal Scottish politician; only John Smith came close IMHO. Henry McLeish would have been right up there but for the expenses scandal.
Nicola Sturgeon was the standout for me; she gave Alistair Carmichael his dinner early doors in one of the very early TV debates and I never saw him again until polling closed last night! Considering he was sent up here to negate Yes in a wave of publicity, he disappeared rapidly!
Former Tory leader Annabel Goldie is well respected here also, despite playing a minimal part in proceedings. Unusual for many in Scotland to voice admiration for a former Tory leader.
Cameron?ks to him.Alex Salmond; say what you like about him, he was Statesman-like throughout the campaign (bar the first debate with Darling; which I believe was a ploy given how he hammered him in the second debate) and had the decency to fall on his sword. Should definitely have adopted a negative campaign on reflection, it would arguably have been more productive; the fact he didn't speaks volumes of the man and I say that as never having been a fan of his. Quite probably the seminal Scottish politician; only John Smith came close IMHO. Henry McLeish would have been right up there but for the expenses scandal.
Nicola Sturgeon was the standout for me; she gave Alistair Carmichael his dinner early doors in one of the very early TV debates and I never saw him again until polling closed last night! Considering he was sent up here to negate Yes in a wave of publicity, he disappeared rapidly!
Former Tory leader Annabel Goldie is well respected here also, despite playing a minimal part in proceedings. Unusual for many in Scotland to voice admiration for a former Tory leader.
All he has done is confirm his total lack of leadership and spinelessness.
He ignored the issue until he suddenly, months after everyone else, realised that the vote might actually go in favour of independence and panicked, offering everything but the kitchen sink without any authority to do so.
Much like his treatment of most issues though, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
Salmond? Statesman? that has given me the biggest laugh I have had since the results started rolling in.
Statesmen do not evade, obfuscate and downright lie when asked awkward questions. The man is a embarrassment and a disgrace to his country, as is his sidekick Sturgeon.
Their bullying tactics directed at anyone who dared to question their lies about EU membership, currency union, defence, budget and a whole string of other topics were cringeworthy. Only the feeble minded would fall for that bulls
t, but it seems they knew 45% of their audience quite well.Brown? I suppose his speech showed that he cares, but then there are plenty of poeple who care at least as much but don't get the platform to demonstrate it.
eccles said:
Can't believe people are saying Cameron came out of this well! Once the polls started to show an even split it was panic time and start offering the Scots anything to get them to stay!
Exactly. He misjudged the yes support when giving the referendum in the first place, then panicked and offered the Scots more devolved powers without even getting support from his own party. He narrowly avoided the breakup of the union, only just beating Salmond's who still got 45% support with no economic policy whatsoever.
DrDeAtH said:
Totally agree on this. He showed real passion, not just saying words.
If this was how he was as PM, things may have been different
No, I think the outcome would have been the same. i think he was out of his depth as PM, but a broker for the next phase of Scottish devolution - the bridge to Westminster might suit him well.If this was how he was as PM, things may have been different
Shame Labour are now separating the English debate - I think this will help the Conservatives in England. Conservative commitment to English only powers, etc.
DrDeAtH said:
Vaud said:
Brown.
Don't like his politics, but wish he had shown the same passion and conviction as PM.
Awesome speech and delivered perfectly.
Totally agree on this. He showed real passion, not just saying words.Don't like his politics, but wish he had shown the same passion and conviction as PM.
Awesome speech and delivered perfectly.
If this was how he was as PM, things may have been different
Bedford Rascal said:
I didn't see it. Has he now managed to stop doing that rictus grimace everytime he finishes a sentence then?
That's good news, because he looked like a total cretin with no control over his body whenever I saw him speak.
I should clarify - I didn't see it - I only heard it. Interesting how perceptions of content differ from visual context/cues.That's good news, because he looked like a total cretin with no control over his body whenever I saw him speak.
Vaud said:
Brown.
Don't like his politics, but wish he had shown the same passion and conviction as PM.
Awesome speech and delivered perfectly.
The speech he delivered today was just as good. He seemingly spoke from the heart with no notes or auto-prompt. He cracked a few jokes and sounded like someone I would back!Don't like his politics, but wish he had shown the same passion and conviction as PM.
Awesome speech and delivered perfectly.
Massively surprised to say the least. I would vote for him.
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