Aircrash investigations
Discussion
Been watching a few of these type of documentaries on YouTube and find them fascinating how they work out the cause, often from just a tiny clue.
Without wishing to dwell on a slightly morbid subject ( although they don't have to be fatal crashes of course, is there a particular investigation that stands out as being exceptional in either the ability of the investigators finding the cause , or the actions of the pilots, ground crew, bean counters, air traffic or others that caused the accident ?
Without wishing to dwell on a slightly morbid subject ( although they don't have to be fatal crashes of course, is there a particular investigation that stands out as being exceptional in either the ability of the investigators finding the cause , or the actions of the pilots, ground crew, bean counters, air traffic or others that caused the accident ?
Think it was a TWA out of USA that exploded not long after departure, not much of it was recovered.
Witnesses state they saw a missile or similar travel up to it but investigation lead to an electrical short in an empty fuel tank
Maybe totally wrong on which company it was but thought considering limited part recovery their conclusion if in fact correct was impressive.
Witnesses state they saw a missile or similar travel up to it but investigation lead to an electrical short in an empty fuel tank
Maybe totally wrong on which company it was but thought considering limited part recovery their conclusion if in fact correct was impressive.
TWA800
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
The Comet investigations of 1954 are pretty much landmark cases in forensic air rash investigations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
The Comet investigations of 1954 are pretty much landmark cases in forensic air rash investigations.
There are 3 that come to mind:
The comet problems in the 50s, they had to go to some lengths using a water tank to find the problem and it opened up a whole new engineering science.
737 rudder hardovers - There were a couple of accidents a few years apart where the primary issue was a rudder hardover, problem was they couldn't find out what caused it. They got a break when a pilot experienced the problem and managed to get control back and land the aircraft. Eventually the trail led to a hydraulic valve, but no defect could be found. Eventually they worked it out and it caused Boeing to redesign the rudder system and then retrofit to all planes.
The Heathrow 777 that experienced a loss of power on approach to Heathrow and only just made it. Interesting how they got to re-create the problem and the seemingly insignificant nature of the cause. I flew out of Heathrow a week or two after the incident and the big ruts were still in the grass, I can still picture my mate seeing them and then turning to me with a "oh f
k!" look on his face 
From a quick view out of the window it was very easy to see that they just made it... must have taken a few months off the lives of the pilots!
The comet problems in the 50s, they had to go to some lengths using a water tank to find the problem and it opened up a whole new engineering science.
737 rudder hardovers - There were a couple of accidents a few years apart where the primary issue was a rudder hardover, problem was they couldn't find out what caused it. They got a break when a pilot experienced the problem and managed to get control back and land the aircraft. Eventually the trail led to a hydraulic valve, but no defect could be found. Eventually they worked it out and it caused Boeing to redesign the rudder system and then retrofit to all planes.
The Heathrow 777 that experienced a loss of power on approach to Heathrow and only just made it. Interesting how they got to re-create the problem and the seemingly insignificant nature of the cause. I flew out of Heathrow a week or two after the incident and the big ruts were still in the grass, I can still picture my mate seeing them and then turning to me with a "oh f
k!" look on his face From a quick view out of the window it was very easy to see that they just made it... must have taken a few months off the lives of the pilots!
I used to share a house (work accommodation) with the pilot on the North Sea helicopter ditching episode covered in Aircrash Investigations. Even though he did a great job in successfully ditching (all survived) with multiple serious failures (including tail rotor!), he was really embarrassed about the programme for some reason. I don't think I'd be half as modest 
One episode that really stuck in my mind was the Little Rock 'Bowling Alley' approach episode.
There was nothing technically wrong with the aircraft, but faced with worsening weather, commercial pressures, time constraints, lowering fuel, and more than likely fatigue, all the holes lined up for this crew that night.
Well worth a viewing. A lot of Air Crash Investigation has examples of one in a million events, but this one is something that all pilot's face on a daily basis and that's what makes it an interesting one.
I particularly admired one of the surviving passengers who said at the end, he had visited the grave of the Captain, saying that he had got himself into a bad situation and acknowledged he'd 'been there himself' too. . . . . . Very thought provoking.
There was nothing technically wrong with the aircraft, but faced with worsening weather, commercial pressures, time constraints, lowering fuel, and more than likely fatigue, all the holes lined up for this crew that night.
Well worth a viewing. A lot of Air Crash Investigation has examples of one in a million events, but this one is something that all pilot's face on a daily basis and that's what makes it an interesting one.
I particularly admired one of the surviving passengers who said at the end, he had visited the grave of the Captain, saying that he had got himself into a bad situation and acknowledged he'd 'been there himself' too. . . . . . Very thought provoking.
So which would being the most investigative of all these ? Most seem to start with a pretty good idea of the cause , such as engine failures or very early reports of events like the whole vertical stabiliser having fallen off before the aircraft crashed, or in the case of the last one I watched , a 747 taking off on a closed runway. The TWA800 and Commet cases mentioned earlier seems to be just such as case. Any others along those lines ?
DuraAce said:
United 232, Sioux City Iowa.
Although a lot of fatalities it seemed a miracle that any survived. All from a very small defect in the fan disk.
An unbelievable set of lucky circumstances.Although a lot of fatalities it seemed a miracle that any survived. All from a very small defect in the fan disk.
Al Haynes lecture at NASA. A decent length but well worth a look, fascinating from many aspects but notably the full communication between ATC and Aircraft at the beginning.
http://youtu.be/mZYHMMMeHic
Edited by TVR1 on Tuesday 23 September 00:18
I think I have seen pretty much every air accident documentary produced, it isnt a morbid thing, I think it has great ramifications for other aspects of your life if you take on board the lessons learned and appreciate that you should cover outside possibilities and expect the unexpected.
I think my fascination came as a nine year old when my dads work colleague was killed along with his wife in the Tenerife Dan Air 727 Crash, another couple were killed from the same place, having been convinced to go on holiday by another guy who worked there as a way to save their marriage. As a kid I couldnt get my head round it easily.
I also remember the day in 1985 I saw a big pall of smoke over Manchester airport when doing my paper round nearby before school, I sort of thought "that isnt good" and then thought it was probably some kids had set fire to a pile of tyres but turned out to be the British Airtours accident.
My wifes friend at school lost both parents in a DC10 crash over France as well
Partly explains my interest perhaps, or might just be interesting, I much prefer the fact that these days the program makes thankfully have less material to go at, Aviation should be tedious and predictable.
I think my fascination came as a nine year old when my dads work colleague was killed along with his wife in the Tenerife Dan Air 727 Crash, another couple were killed from the same place, having been convinced to go on holiday by another guy who worked there as a way to save their marriage. As a kid I couldnt get my head round it easily.
I also remember the day in 1985 I saw a big pall of smoke over Manchester airport when doing my paper round nearby before school, I sort of thought "that isnt good" and then thought it was probably some kids had set fire to a pile of tyres but turned out to be the British Airtours accident.
My wifes friend at school lost both parents in a DC10 crash over France as well
Partly explains my interest perhaps, or might just be interesting, I much prefer the fact that these days the program makes thankfully have less material to go at, Aviation should be tedious and predictable.
TVR1 said:
An unbelievable set of lucky circumstances.
Al Haynes lecture at NASA. A decent length but well worth a look, fascinating from many aspects but notably the full communication between ATC and Aircraft at the beginning.
http://youtu.be/mZYHMMMeHic
Thanks for that. Watched that and found it very interesting. The small details he picks out on all areas may it all the more fascinating. Al Haynes lecture at NASA. A decent length but well worth a look, fascinating from many aspects but notably the full communication between ATC and Aircraft at the beginning.
http://youtu.be/mZYHMMMeHic
Edited by TVR1 on Tuesday 23 September 00:18
Mr_B said:
TVR1 said:
An unbelievable set of lucky circumstances.
Al Haynes lecture at NASA. A decent length but well worth a look, fascinating from many aspects but notably the full communication between ATC and Aircraft at the beginning.
http://youtu.be/mZYHMMMeHic
Thanks for that. Watched that and found it very interesting. The small details he picks out on all areas may it all the more fascinating. Al Haynes lecture at NASA. A decent length but well worth a look, fascinating from many aspects but notably the full communication between ATC and Aircraft at the beginning.
http://youtu.be/mZYHMMMeHic
Edited by TVR1 on Tuesday 23 September 00:18
http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/trans...
If anyone is interested in reading some great books on air crash investigations hunt down the 'air disaster' series by Macarthur Job.
They really are a great read, covering the early days with structural, procedural and weather related crashes right through to modern
crashes - mostly pilot error.
Lots of detail, drawings and explanations of relevant systems etc and lots from the official reports by each respective investigative authority.
I had a quick look on Amazon and they are going for some silly money, but if you can pick any up for £10-£15 they really are an excellent read.
They really are a great read, covering the early days with structural, procedural and weather related crashes right through to modern
crashes - mostly pilot error.
Lots of detail, drawings and explanations of relevant systems etc and lots from the official reports by each respective investigative authority.
I had a quick look on Amazon and they are going for some silly money, but if you can pick any up for £10-£15 they really are an excellent read.
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