RE: Motorsport on Monday: 22/09/14

RE: Motorsport on Monday: 22/09/14

Monday 22nd September 2014

Motorsport on Monday: 22/09/14

Radio rollbacks - how far should the communications cut go in motorsport?



Hands up, who believes in fate? It might be a bit of a deep question for a Monday morning comment piece on last weekend's on-track action, but one that's certainly pertinent given the result.

Daniel, you must stop smiling. Got it?
Daniel, you must stop smiling. Got it?
Which was a victory for Lewis Hamilton and a retirement for Nico Rosberg, sending him in the red, white and blue corner to the top of the drivers' world championship standings by three points.

Edged out for pole pole by an ugly, Platypus-style nose - 0.007 seconds - the German struggled to get his car to the grid come race day, eventually taking the start after a steering wheel change.

More problems during the race for Rosberg meaning only his gearshift paddles were working (also meaning no hybrid power or DRS) was eventually traced to a knackered wiring loom in the steering column, putting him out of the twilight Grand Prix on lap 14 and redressing the reliability balance that's been so far weighted towards Hamilton this year.

This means it's now game on for the title with five races left, including double points at the last round.

How much influence should they have?
How much influence should they have?
Radio silence
But this weekend was interesting for another, potentially very important reason. It marked the introduction of an FIA directive clamping down on the use of pit-to-car radio to improve vehicle and driver performance - something that could impact a number of other FIA-governed race series around the world, from the World Endurance Championship to European F3.

As a trendsetter (take KERS and DRS, for example), the FIA's decision could filter down to other national championships as they look to make F1 copycat moves.

With immediate effect last week, all communications to the driver from his engineer with intent to make him or the car go faster was ruled out, which, where my two cents are concerned, is definitely a good thing. Refreshingly, it's been welcomed by drivers, too.

A quick recap: this includes contact about lines, riding kerbs, changing car setup for certain corners, details on sector times and corner speeds, gear selection, braking points and throttle application - absolutely and compared to other drivers - car stability, use of DRS or any electric motor energy and driving technique. So, in short, pretty much everything a driver is employed to do.

And there's a championship back on!
And there's a championship back on!
Making sure everyone continues to know he's still pulling some strings backstage, having claimed the idea for his own, Ecclestone waded in hinting that there could be a further ban on telemetry in the future. Bernie says... here's an opportunity to make lots of money.

Driving by committee
The man has a point. Article 20.1 of the FIA's Sporting Regulations states that "The driver must drive the car alone and unaided." Up until now, that's been a delightfully vague statement that's been left open to interpretation and loophole finding by teams.

My view is F1 shouldn't be a process of driving by committee. The current cars are incredibly complex, but they shouldn't need an engineer to extract the speed - if they did they'd have a second seat for a co-driver. And then it'd be called rallying.

In Singapore Rosberg reckoned the team was telling him about 20 per cent of the stuff it would have done prior to the new rule, meaning it's a big challenge for the driver - but that's what spectators watch the sport for, isn't it?

Driving 'alone and unaided' always vague
Driving 'alone and unaided' always vague
It puts more emphasis on the pilot. It means they'll have to do more homework. More of the onus is placed upon them to pedal a car quickly.

Any driver in tier one motorsport should be able to feel the car, sense the tyres going off and develop a strategy to drive around any problems that might arise, more than likely grip related.

They should also choose when to deploy any battery energy, where they need to brake, how the diff should be set for individual corners, and the brake bias, and the brake migration, and work out how much time they're losing/gaining through a particular corner, and how to make it up or make even more on their opponent.

That's quite a lot of things to do in a lap, which is why the best drivers would rise to the top quicker, rather than those whose ultimate talent limit is masked by an army of data experts in the back of a garage - or even a warehouse somewhere on the M4 corridor.

And we've not even talked about adding a third pedal and a stick yet...

Why stop at simply removing radio?
Why stop at simply removing radio?
Manual vs auto
It's a debate that's taken up a hefty chunk of PH server space in recent times: manual gearboxes vs automatic paddleshift transmissions. Whether it's on a 991 GT3 road car or a top echelon single-seater, this one's not going to go away.

Dealing with the above takes a lot of brain processing power - and that's without the physical aspect of driving a car either. So should F1 return to manual gearboxes?

It'd slow speeds and lap times down, and prove a technical challenge to get a hybrid powertrain to work with an H-pattern 'box. But that's what F1's about, devising clever solutions to complex problems.

But it's more about driving. A great driver can make a lousy car go quicker than it has any right to, but I'm not so sure the reverse is true. If the FIA is going to stop driving by committee in cutting down comms between car and pit, do it with conviction.

Cut down communication between ECUs and let the main computer processing data inside a car be the driver's brain. Some might say that's dangerous (I'm not sure I agree), but it'd certainly be interesting. It worked with banning traction control again.

Give them a clutch and a stick and put a pedal cam inside the foot well of each car like they used to in V8 Supercars and watch 'em dance. Involve fans in it like this and it'd be a success, I'm sure. What do you think?

 

 

Author
Discussion

BlimeyCharlie

Original Poster:

902 posts

142 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
I find F1 just massively complicated still. Radio messages are delivered to the drivers by what sounds like air traffic control.
This is the pinnacle of the sport. You don't have footballers playing with headsets on, and that is the better for it.
Instead, in football, you have a manager seething with rage, or frustration, shouting and gesticulating wildly, and that is that.

If the drivers need advice on anything, then they could come into the pits and ask. Ron Dennis, Niki Lauda etc could then shout instructions into the ear of the driver. That would be fun.

Or just ban the actual TV transmission of the air traffic control instructions if we insist on having them?
Also, ban the different compounds of tyres as this is just complicated for the sake of it.

F1 should be glamorous, not a lecture that feels as if it has started before I got there.

mrclav

1,294 posts

223 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Agree with the radio communication point. Do not agree however with bringing manual transmissions back into F1 at all.

Fishtigua

9,786 posts

195 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Dab of Oppo and heal n'toe. So PH.

Sorry, but the world has moved on from those times. Even shopping trolleys have flappy paddles these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU

Fetchez la vache

5,572 posts

214 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
I know for a fact that 6 F1 drivers only have an auto license. *







I may have just made that up

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

233 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Fishtigua said:
Dab of Oppo and heal n'toe. So PH.

Sorry, but the world has moved on from those times. Even shopping trolleys have flappy paddles these days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8By2AEsGAhU
yes

I remember well a long period of time when everyone was saying "What we need to do is stick the cars back onto grooved tyres, that will spice up the show and sort the men from the boys." Didn't turn out that way iirc.

The last thing that we need is to regress back to stick shifters. If you wanted that the time to act was 1991...

FourRingedDonuts

109 posts

124 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Can you stop calling it Motorsport on Monday please. I like F1 as much as the next person but enjoy other Formulas and race series as well.
I always like to read MOM but feel the title suggests a round up of Motorsport not just an F1 rant.

_Neal_

2,663 posts

219 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Fishtigua said:
Dab of Oppo and heal n'toe. So PH.

Sorry, but the world has moved on from those times. Even shopping trolleys have flappy paddles these days.
This argument/rant is pretty much the dictionary definition of "flogging a dead horse". So many car manufacturers, especially high-performance/supercar makers, have moved away from 3 pedals (will Ferrari even sell you a new car with a clutch pedal?).

To my mind, insisting on F1 going that way would be a strange backwards step, especially for a sport that has consistently pushed car tech forwards, and mating an h-pattern manual to a hybrid powertrain would be answering a question that no-one is asking.





anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
BlimeyCharlie said:
Also, ban the different compounds of tyres as this is just complicated for the sake of it.

F1 should be glamorous, not a lecture that feels as if it has started before I got there.
Removing the 2nd compound would completely ruin any chance of close racing.

F1 is not that difficult to understand in 2014; it's probably easier than ever. The commentators still explain things every week, and they run features on the technology during the race build up/post race. There are also things like teds notebook, which is free to watch on Sky F1's website. F1 cannot ever be as accessible as football, because it's always going to be more complicated than kicking a ball into a net. That's just the way it is. Football is so popular because any idiot understands it.

r11co

6,244 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Fetchez la vache said:
I know for a fact that 6 F1 drivers only have an auto license.
Said in jest, but here's what happened when a 'current-crop' F1 driver had to cope with an H-pattern (something he'd never done before in his racing career).

Linky.

I'm in agreement though that forcing an H-pattern gearbox is a nostalgic step too far. Might as well re-introduce cork helmets as well for all the relevance that would have. I do think however that telemetry and 'ship-to-shore' radio should be severely restricted. If that means some of the tech being rolled back then so be it.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be computerisation but at the moment there is effectively an invisible umbilicle between each racer and a whole load of invisible tech that is having a massive effect on the race that no-one on TV or in the grandstands can actually see.

So, how about a rule saying that it should be part of the car, so teams have to literally weigh up the performance compromise of adding the power of a truckful of supercomputer to the actual car....!

Edited by r11co on Monday 22 September 11:59

TheOtherMonkey

33 posts

135 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
I'm not sure I fully understand this new rule about driver coaching over the radio. There were a number of examples in yesterday's race that could easily have fallen within that defintion - for example Ricciardo was told early in the race that his brakes were overheating and therefore he should move out of Alonso's slipstream into still air. Surely that's driver coaching?

r11co

6,244 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
TheOtherMonkey said:
I'm not sure I fully understand this new rule about driver coaching over the radio. There were a number of examples in yesterday's race that could easily have fallen within that defintion - for example Ricciardo was told early in the race that his brakes were overheating and therefore he should move out of Alonso's slipstream into still air. Surely that's driver coaching?
There is a grey area covering safety related issues, plus you could argue that what they told him was actually to his detriment.

goron59

397 posts

171 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Some people here saying that a clutch pedal and manual shifting is old tech, never coming back, etc.

But F1 cars don't have ABS or traction control, or stability control, or movable aero. All things road cars have.

I think if you're going to allow automatic shifting, torque blending and all that exciting stuff, you might as well allow ABS/TCS/ESP and so on.

So I lean toward an exceptional man or woman showing their skills operating the machine.

RacerMike

4,202 posts

211 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
I really don't understand why people are having an issue with radio communication?! It's been a thing in top level motorsport for years, and anything where the cars are complex and technically advanced requires a great deal of 'management' through the race. They're not telling anyone how to drive, it's just car management.

The only difference I see is that we can now hear the pit to car communication.

dukebox9reg

1,571 posts

148 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
goron59 said:
Some people here saying that a clutch pedal and manual shifting is old tech, never coming back, etc.

But F1 cars don't have ABS or traction control, or stability control, or movable aero. All things road cars have.

I think if you're going to allow automatic shifting, torque blending and all that exciting stuff, you might as well allow ABS/TCS/ESP and so on.

So I lean toward an exceptional man or woman showing their skills operating the machine.
Don't agree with your ABS/TC comment etc. These are designed for the road to slow you down when the car thinks your are going too fast. Helps on bad road surfaces and varying conditions to try and come up with the best compromise for people who don't know how to counter understeer/oversteer/locking up etc.

first thing most people do to go faster on track days is to turn off TC and pop the abs fuse to go faster. Surely the driver at the highest level of sport should know how hard to break or rescue a slide.

sanctum

191 posts

175 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Putting manual gearbox in as an option would not benefit the sport. If you want to make things harder for the drivers, you could force them to wear an eye patch, or drive one handed. More focus on driving results in fewer accidents (I have no figures to back that up, it just makes sense).

On the subject of the banned radio transmissions, I totally get it, but does it extend only to audio transmissions, or would a pit-side triggered flashing light on the wheel also be illegal, for example, to change to a different fuel strategy? The wheels some teams use could actually put up full text messages and video if the teams wanted to send that to the driver.

I'd personally like to see a reduction in vehicle complexity. Take away all the extra fuel settings, the ability to alter aero trim, gearbox settings, brake balance, etc, etc, (ok maybe leave them brake balance) force drivers and teams to set the car up BEFORE the race and then drive the car to achieve those benefits, need to reduce fuel consumption? Back off the loud pedal, simples. All too reliant on technology to do the driving for them IMO.

bakker110

27 posts

143 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
FourRingedDonuts said:
Can you stop calling it Motorsport on Monday please. I like F1 as much as the next person but enjoy other Formulas and race series as well.
I always like to read MOM but feel the title suggests a round up of Motorsport not just an F1 rant.
I agree. There was not only F1 on this weekend but also world endurance cars and rally cross - one of the motorsports PH seemed so keen to promote yet I have barely seen an article on it since the first event of the season.

r11co

6,244 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
I really don't understand why people are having an issue with radio communication?! It's been a thing in top level motorsport for years, and anything where the cars are complex and technically advanced requires a great deal of 'management' through the race.
I don't have a problem with the radio per se. My issue is with the information being relayed over it, generated using more computing power than a Mars mission.

nickboazracing

130 posts

237 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
bakker110 said:
FourRingedDonuts said:
Can you stop calling it Motorsport on Monday please. I like F1 as much as the next person but enjoy other Formulas and race series as well.
I always like to read MOM but feel the title suggests a round up of Motorsport not just an F1 rant.
I agree. There was not only F1 on this weekend but also world endurance cars and rally cross - one of the motorsports PH seemed so keen to promote yet I have barely seen an article on it since the first event of the season.
Agree too. Classic "Motorsport = F1" syndrome.

Alex Langheck

835 posts

129 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
FourRingedDonuts said:
Can you stop calling it Motorsport on Monday please. I like F1 as much as the next person but enjoy other Formulas and race series as well.
I always like to read MOM but feel the title suggests a round up of Motorsport not just an F1 rant.
Have to agree. Where is the comments on FiAWEC at CoTA, BlancpainGT 1000km, and FiAERC Cyprus Rally?? Or don’t they count?

sideways man

1,314 posts

137 months

Monday 22nd September 2014
quotequote all
Formula 1.

Entertainment,where the best drivers are pitted against each other in the fastest cars.

Why not increase the entertainment value,by giving the driver more to do in the cockpit,i.e manual gearchange, resulting in more mistakes therefore more overtaking.

Similarly,carbon brakes have no relevance to everyday motoring. A change back to steel,results in longer braking distance and again more chance of overtaking.