Lying on your accident report.
Discussion
I've only dealt with insurance companies twice, both resulting in 100% in my favour. Due in no part to both third parties making easily provable lies on their statements.
For instance in my last accident an old lady pulled out of a side road in front of my motorbike then to compound it U turned to go back the same way. One broken collar bone and 2 years later it was settled. My statement told what happened, as did the independent witness who was coming towards me.
Her statement however put the accident 50 yards along the minor road where she had pulled up outside a coffee shop and I somehow ran into the back of her car.
Now this is quite easily proved a total lie by my independent witness and the police who attended and found me sitting on the grass verge with my bike beside me complete with marks on the road etc.
My question is how do people get away with this? Is it a police matter or could the insurance companies try to discourage blatant lying. Everyone seems to do it, you only have to read SP & L to find examples. Probably because there is no comeback even if you are caught.
Current culture seems to favour the view that anything is only wrong (lying, stealing, etc) if you get caught. Combine that with the fact that any attempt to offer the most casual and gentle help towards law enforcement results in comments like "flip off you grass, what's it got to do with you" etc and you have the answer.
there are 2 sides to every story
if you ask several fairly sane and ration people to tell the story of something they witnessed, something which they had absolutely no involvement or interested in so are completely independent, their stories will often vary significantly.
Once people start having personal involvement and heighten emotions the problems get much worse, very hard to draw a line
if you ask several fairly sane and ration people to tell the story of something they witnessed, something which they had absolutely no involvement or interested in so are completely independent, their stories will often vary significantly.
Once people start having personal involvement and heighten emotions the problems get much worse, very hard to draw a line
In my experience I don't think the insurance companies care if the lies save them money on a claim.
I got clipped by a Unimog a few years ago on a country lane. I was stationary waiting for him to pass, but the Mog was going too fast on a road barely wide enough for 2 cars and he ripped my rear bumper off.
In his statement the Mog driver said I was in the middle of the road doing 40mph and him 30mph, with 6 car lengths between us. It didn't take a CSI to figure out that this was physically impossible. With a closing speed of 70mph he would have driven over the top of me.
He also stated he had no recent convictions, but in court it transpired he had 2 recent convictions for speeding whilst towing. Nothing came of it and the judge decided in his favour. The insurance company were happy, they saved themselves over £30k on the claim that dragged on over a year.
I got clipped by a Unimog a few years ago on a country lane. I was stationary waiting for him to pass, but the Mog was going too fast on a road barely wide enough for 2 cars and he ripped my rear bumper off.
In his statement the Mog driver said I was in the middle of the road doing 40mph and him 30mph, with 6 car lengths between us. It didn't take a CSI to figure out that this was physically impossible. With a closing speed of 70mph he would have driven over the top of me.
He also stated he had no recent convictions, but in court it transpired he had 2 recent convictions for speeding whilst towing. Nothing came of it and the judge decided in his favour. The insurance company were happy, they saved themselves over £30k on the claim that dragged on over a year.
I have had but one crash (well, coming together, really!) in over 40 years so have little experience of this, happily.
However, the statement put together for the Court by the lorry driver that had a bit of a spatial awareness crisis near my car was a total fabrication.
I was quite looking forwsard to my day in Court, only for the other side to capitulate with less than 24 hours to go.
(It was before the days of dash-cams, but I had an independent witness and copious photographs of the after effects of this hit and run).
I was involved in an accident last month where the vehicle I was overtaking, which had previously been happily tailgating the bus in front at 30mph, decided to overtake when i was alongside.
Both our vehicles were side by side when the other driver crossed the centre line and hit me. All the damage to my car is on the nearside. All the damage to the other car is on the offside. The road is a NSL single carriageway.
The other driver's statement says that they were overtaking when I crashed into them. I'm hoping the patent absurdity of their proposed scenario will result in things going in my favour since there were no witnesses. I've now fitted a dashcam.
I don't understand it either. If you do something stupid just admit it and move on. Don't drag the innocent party down with you.
Both our vehicles were side by side when the other driver crossed the centre line and hit me. All the damage to my car is on the nearside. All the damage to the other car is on the offside. The road is a NSL single carriageway.
The other driver's statement says that they were overtaking when I crashed into them. I'm hoping the patent absurdity of their proposed scenario will result in things going in my favour since there were no witnesses. I've now fitted a dashcam.
I don't understand it either. If you do something stupid just admit it and move on. Don't drag the innocent party down with you.
SV8Predator said:
Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
I had this the other day.
My insurance company sent me an accident report, which I left on my desk.
Later when I came into the office, my cat was lying all over it.
What a great, insightful post.My insurance company sent me an accident report, which I left on my desk.
Later when I came into the office, my cat was lying all over it.
I was one of three passengers in a taxi which t-boned a car which attempted a u-turn in front of us as we were approaching.
One of his passengers started gobbling off about how our driver had run into the back of them so it "was your fault".
She shut up when we told the attending coppers that the three of us worked in motor insurance.
As it happened, I knew the investigator who dealt with the third party claim but I hadn't seen him for ages. About a year later we bumped into each other in a pub and he told me he'd seen my name on the claim form.
As a result of the investigations, the policy was declared void, I suspect there were some undisclosed facts on the proposal form but my pal told me that his shiftiness and poor attempts at mis-describing the accident didn't play well when the final decision was made.
Me and my missus were fine and still are depite a bit of neckache for a few weeks. The other passenger went for the full whipcash package so we all got an ambulance ride. We went home afterwards, she went to Marbella for two weeks the next summer.
One of his passengers started gobbling off about how our driver had run into the back of them so it "was your fault".
She shut up when we told the attending coppers that the three of us worked in motor insurance.
As it happened, I knew the investigator who dealt with the third party claim but I hadn't seen him for ages. About a year later we bumped into each other in a pub and he told me he'd seen my name on the claim form.
As a result of the investigations, the policy was declared void, I suspect there were some undisclosed facts on the proposal form but my pal told me that his shiftiness and poor attempts at mis-describing the accident didn't play well when the final decision was made.
Me and my missus were fine and still are depite a bit of neckache for a few weeks. The other passenger went for the full whipcash package so we all got an ambulance ride. We went home afterwards, she went to Marbella for two weeks the next summer.
Webber3 said:
In my experience I don't think the insurance companies care if the lies save them money on a claim.
I got clipped by a Unimog a few years ago on a country lane. I was stationary waiting for him to pass, but the Mog was going too fast on a road barely wide enough for 2 cars and he ripped my rear bumper off.
In his statement the Mog driver said I was in the middle of the road doing 40mph and him 30mph, with 6 car lengths between us. It didn't take a CSI to figure out that this was physically impossible. With a closing speed of 70mph he would have driven over the top of me.
He also stated he had no recent convictions, but in court it transpired he had 2 recent convictions for speeding whilst towing. Nothing came of it and the judge decided in his favour. The insurance company were happy, they saved themselves over £30k on the claim that dragged on over a year.
How did this come to £30k? Feel free to post a breakdown of costs, so I can point and laugh. I got clipped by a Unimog a few years ago on a country lane. I was stationary waiting for him to pass, but the Mog was going too fast on a road barely wide enough for 2 cars and he ripped my rear bumper off.
In his statement the Mog driver said I was in the middle of the road doing 40mph and him 30mph, with 6 car lengths between us. It didn't take a CSI to figure out that this was physically impossible. With a closing speed of 70mph he would have driven over the top of me.
He also stated he had no recent convictions, but in court it transpired he had 2 recent convictions for speeding whilst towing. Nothing came of it and the judge decided in his favour. The insurance company were happy, they saved themselves over £30k on the claim that dragged on over a year.
LoonR1 said:
How did this come to £30k? Feel free to post a breakdown of costs, so I can point and laugh.
Well, if you're interested, read on...The repair should have cost about £2.5k through insurance. It looked bad, but it was only the bumper that was damaged, a simple job. I got the vehicle taken to a BMW approved body shop the next day and there it remained for over 6 months!
The Unimog driver wouldn't admit any fault, so his insurance company wouldn't even come to inspect the damage. I got an accident management company involved, they thought I had a strong case, so gave me a replacement vehicle on hire (2 grades lower than my own) and started legal action against the insurer.
After a few weeks, to get out of the hire car and limit costs, I said I'd pay for the repair myself. I was advised not to as the other side would need to get their own engineer's damage report done or there's no way they'd pay for any repairs.
After receiving an accident report form from the Mog driver nobody expected this to end up in court. It was an obvious pack of lies and worked in our favour. A 5 year old could have made up a better story.
It did go to court however and the story was good enough for the judge. He believed every word of it and found in favour of the Mog driver. The judge said I wasn't stationary at the time of the collision and was in fact doing over 40mph down this country lane when I hit the Unimog travelling at 30mph (on tyres limited to 20mph).
This decision was a bit of a surprise to both legal teams! This guy had tried to hide 2 recent driving convictions, had been picked up twice for lying whilst giving evidence, both times he admitted to lying when challenged by our barrister. Despite this, the judge later described him as a thoroughly reliable and convincing witness!
Fortunately for the accident management company, the other side admitted 50% liability the day before we went to court. So despite the judge's bizarre decision they were paid half of the now £70k+ claim. Strangely the judge had absolutely no issue with the size of the claim or the need for 6 months car hire at £275 per day.
The really crazy thing is that both insurance companies are owned by the same parent company. They could have just paid for the repair on day one and saved a small fortune.
MrsMiggins said:
I don't understand it either. If you do something stupid just admit it and move on. Don't drag the innocent party down with you.
The problem is that drivers are told by their insurers 'In the event of being involved in an accident, do not make any admission of liability'. This turns normally honest people into liars, as they are afraid to admit to the truth and instead deny everything. There's a big difference between "don't admit anything" and "tell bald-faced lies in an attempt to implicate the innocent third party".
For closure: I found out this week that the other driver's insurer in my case has accepted liability, which is a weight off my mind. Just waiting for my excess back and hoping to get everything done and dusted before my renewal on 8th Nov.
For closure: I found out this week that the other driver's insurer in my case has accepted liability, which is a weight off my mind. Just waiting for my excess back and hoping to get everything done and dusted before my renewal on 8th Nov.
Webber3 said:
LoonR1 said:
How did this come to £30k? Feel free to post a breakdown of costs, so I can point and laugh.
Well, if you're interested, read on...The repair should have cost about £2.5k through insurance. It looked bad, but it was only the bumper that was damaged, a simple job. I got the vehicle taken to a BMW approved body shop the next day and there it remained for over 6 months!
The Unimog driver wouldn't admit any fault, so his insurance company wouldn't even come to inspect the damage. I got an accident management company involved, they thought I had a strong case, so gave me a replacement vehicle on hire (2 grades lower than my own) and started legal action against the insurer.
After a few weeks, to get out of the hire car and limit costs, I said I'd pay for the repair myself. I was advised not to as the other side would need to get their own engineer's damage report done or there's no way they'd pay for any repairs.
After receiving an accident report form from the Mog driver nobody expected this to end up in court. It was an obvious pack of lies and worked in our favour. A 5 year old could have made up a better story.
It did go to court however and the story was good enough for the judge. He believed every word of it and found in favour of the Mog driver. The judge said I wasn't stationary at the time of the collision and was in fact doing over 40mph down this country lane when I hit the Unimog travelling at 30mph (on tyres limited to 20mph).
This decision was a bit of a surprise to both legal teams! This guy had tried to hide 2 recent driving convictions, had been picked up twice for lying whilst giving evidence, both times he admitted to lying when challenged by our barrister. Despite this, the judge later described him as a thoroughly reliable and convincing witness!
Fortunately for the accident management company, the other side admitted 50% liability the day before we went to court. So despite the judge's bizarre decision they were paid half of the now £70k+ claim. Strangely the judge had absolutely no issue with the size of the claim or the need for 6 months car hire at £275 per day.
The really crazy thing is that both insurance companies are owned by the same parent company. They could have just paid for the repair on day one and saved a small fortune.
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