FIA looking to make F1 cars harder to drive

[mattikake]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116031

About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...

[IforB]

Oh wow that'll be fun. Why not just dust off some '80's F1 cars instead?

F1 should be about pushing the technical limit as well as the driver's. Whilst I'm a fan of less downforce and more power, going back in time to manual boxes and steel brakes seems to be an unnecessary retrograde step just for the sake of it.

[RYH64E]

Typical arse about face FIA thinking, hugely complex, staggeringly expensive engines in back to basics chassis, that'll work...

[Derek Smith]

RYH64E said:

Typical arse about face FIA thinking, hugely complex, staggeringly expensive engines in back to basics chassis, that'll work...

Sounds like kite flying to me.

I thought the new formula a step in the right direction with too much power, at times that is, coming in with a bang. We're seeing cars sliding, back ends difficult to control and corners aborted because of the limitations.

'Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

I don't care whether the brakes are power assisted or not. What I want are cars that can follow inches behind another and overtake into corners. I want cars that are difficult to keep on the track if you are not skilled.

No power assisted brakes? Whatever.

Excitement is what I want.

I don't mind limited overtaking as long as the overtakes we get are not due to tyre life and drs.

[williamp]

Ive been saying it for ages. If a teenager can drive an f1 car, the sport needs to question itself.

So, keep the f1 power. Have Fford levels of downforce. To be controlled with your right foot, rather then steering wheel.

[mattikake]

Derek Smith said:

Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

Did you read this linked article DereK? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116032

I remember drivers talking about how manual gearbox operation used to take the skin of their knuckles. Fitness has come along way no doubt, but there are limitations to what the human body can achieve. There's no way drivers are so fit now that they'd find an 80's turbo car a breeze.

[Jasandjules]

But I want to see them pushing the limits, not slowing down..

[John D.]

I like the sound of manual boxes but it won't happen. That Autosport link doesn't appear to make any mention of it either.

Increasing braking distances with steel discs would be good too.

[Derek Smith]

mattikake said:

Derek Smith said:

Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

Did you read this linked article DereK? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116032

I remember drivers talking about how manual gearbox operation used to take the skin of their knuckles. Fitness has come along way no doubt, but there are limitations to what the human body can achieve. There's no way drivers are so fit now that they'd find an 80's turbo car a breeze.

My feeling is that there's a difference with being fit and having to put up with, for instance, problems such as the gear lever damaging hands.

I was in the pits at a race with GT cars, the TVR T400R. I went in to get a photo of work that a mechanic was going to do inside the cockpit but as he opened the door the heat was so great that I was forced to take a step backwards. When one driver finished his stint, as he walked past me the heat from his clothing was tremendous.

I've seen a couple of drivers from the late 90s close up, still in the turbo era by the way, and there's no way they looked as fit as the current lot. Doesn't Button do Iron Man stuff?

I agree, of course, that no one would find the cars from 15-20 years ago and more easy to drive. But I'd like them not to be fighting the steering wheel so much as fighting to keep the cars on the road.

I liked the days of the Tuscan Challenge when the chassis could not cope with the engine (nor the general standard of driving). What I'd like to see is the car squirming under braking, lots of opposite lock in corners (I know there's lots of that nowadays when the top guys go at it) and squirming again on acceleration. I'm a simple soul.

[mattikake]

Derek Smith said:

mattikake said:

Derek Smith said:

Harder' seems to be open to interpretation. Prost saying they he couldn't drive the car for a whole morning in testing. The current crop of drivers are probably the most fit ever so what's he suggesting?

Did you read this linked article DereK? http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116032

I remember drivers talking about how manual gearbox operation used to take the skin of their knuckles. Fitness has come along way no doubt, but there are limitations to what the human body can achieve. There's no way drivers are so fit now that they'd find an 80's turbo car a breeze.

My feeling is that there's a difference with being fit and having to put up with, for instance, problems such as the gear lever damaging hands.

I was in the pits at a race with GT cars, the TVR T400R. I went in to get a photo of work that a mechanic was going to do inside the cockpit but as he opened the door the heat was so great that I was forced to take a step backwards. When one driver finished his stint, as he walked past me the heat from his clothing was tremendous.

I've seen a couple of drivers from the late 90s close up, still in the turbo era by the way, and there's no way they looked as fit as the current lot. Doesn't Button do Iron Man stuff?

I agree, of course, that no one would find the cars from 15-20 years ago and more easy to drive. But I'd like them not to be fighting the steering wheel so much as fighting to keep the cars on the road.

I liked the days of the Tuscan Challenge when the chassis could not cope with the engine (nor the general standard of driving). What I'd like to see is the car squirming under braking, lots of opposite lock in corners (I know there's lots of that nowadays when the top guys go at it) and squirming again on acceleration. I'm a simple soul.

In short, like watching Goodwood Revival? Sliding in, sliding round, sliding out. Loads of power, no grip, simple cars. The driver makes the difference.

The actual driving of F1 cars today is incredibly dull to watch and "looks" skilless to the average Joe.

[PhillipM]

John D. said:

Increasing braking distances with steel discs would be good too.

I hear this a lot, never worked out how people think it would increase braking dustances? Tyre grip is the same..

We've already got regulated tyres, so lets mandate softer sidewalls, stronger shoulders and tread. Let the cars move.

Edited by PhillipM on Sunday 28th September 23:17

[williamp]

PhillipM said:

John D. said:

Increasing braking distances with steel discs would be good too.

I hear this a lot, never worked out how people think it would increase braking dustances? Tyre grip is the same..

We've already got regulated tyres, so lets mandate softer sidewalls, stronger shoulders and tread. Let the cars move.

Edited by PhillipM on Sunday 28th September 23:17

I think i read somewhere years ago that viellneuve didn't get on with carbon disks in the williams, so they tried steel. Same breaking effect, however un-sprung weight was noticeably higher so they kept the carbon disks and told him to adapt

[otolith]

williamp said:

Ive been saying it for ages. If a teenager can drive an f1 car, the sport needs to question itself.

Teenagers are good at that kind of thing - they learn quickly, their reflexes and senses are good. You could maybe exclude them by making the cars more physical, but I think you'd exclude a lot of adult drivers too.

[Petrus1983]

I'm going to go against the consensus on this one. There's plenty of events these days such as this...

http://acm.mc/en/grand-prix-de-monaco-historique/
Not to mention Goodwood and the likes.

F1 should push like hell to be at the forefront of aerodynamics and technology IMO, I like watching the true 'team' contribution to this level. For those who want low down force & high power to weight etc then enjoy Formula Ford and a host of other series that are more accessible than F1 anyway.

[Bbunter]

I'm all for making the drivers actually drive the cars, rather than twiddle dials and hit switches, then hang on as their upside down aircraft fly themselves, in formation, and only pass each other when the car is temporarily changed, to allow a contrived phoney overtake. However, making the cars totally hairy arsed, isn't the best solution.

[williamp]

Petrus1983 said:

I'm going to go against the consensus on this one. There's plenty of events these days such as this...

http://acm.mc/en/grand-prix-de-monaco-historique/
Not to mention Goodwood and the likes.

F1 should push like hell to be at the forefront of aerodynamics and technology IMO, I like watching the true 'team' contribution to this level. For those who want low down force & high power to weight etc then enjoy Formula Ford and a host of other series that are more accessible than F1 anyway.

High tech aero, technology etc are becomming the preseve of endurance racing. Fuel efficient 1000bhp cars running with intermediate tyres who dont need tread and can be slick? Yes please

[angrymoby]

williamp said:

I think i read somewhere years ago that viellneuve didn't get on with carbon disks in the williams, so they tried steel. Same breaking effect, however un-sprung weight was noticeably higher so they kept the carbon disks and told him to adapt

It was Zanardi in '99 iirc

[IainT]

Derek Smith said:

lots of opposite lock in corners (I know there's lots of that nowadays when the top guys go at it) and squirming again on acceleration.

With the current tyres it'd see two things I think... more driving like miss daisy trying to keep the tyres alive and drivers with great feel getting good pace out of them longer. The current fragility of the tyres doesn't encourage flat-out racing but it has undoubtedly added a lot of strategty AND excitement to the season so far.

[AlexS]

mattikake said:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116031

About bloody time! Less downforce, more power, manual gearboxes, steel brakes, no DRS, no access to telemetry, safety-only radio...

This years cars already have more power and less downforce than last years. The lowering of cornering G loads is partially what has reduced the loads on the drivers.

[rdjohn]

I think that banning power steering would make F1 more of an endurance event for the driver. It would also encourage drivers to carry a little muscle. The current arrangements encourage ever-more imaciated drivers, the recent photos of Max Chiltern were quite shocking.

The more complicated bit is to narrow the gap between Q3 and race pace times. Driving an F1 car 2 secs off the qually pace is probably not difficult for the top drivers, but 7 secs is just way too much. Unfortunately without durable tyres and refuelling this just ain't going to happen. Narrowing the gap between the fastest and slowest combinations is achievable, but not while the few top teams in the Strategy Group call all the shots.

We are stuck with a very flawed sport, and probably fewer teams next year.