Selling car - new road tax thievery rules??

Selling car - new road tax thievery rules??

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motoroller

Original Poster:

657 posts

172 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
I'm confused with the new rules on road tax. My car is due to sell pending viewing, either this week or next week.

It currently has road tax until the end of October.

As far as I understand, from 2nd Oct. I won't be able to leave the current tax on the car. At the same time, I won't be able to get a refund for October.

Does this mean I stand to lose ~£40 as my car is in the highest bracket?

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
motoroller said:
Does this mean I stand to lose ~£40 as my car is in the highest bracket?
You can only claim back whole months so, if you sell the car in October, you won't be able to claim anything back.

But unless you'd planned to charge the new buyer an extra £40 for the benefit of <1 month's tax, that's no different to how it was under the old rules.

6cylGolf

700 posts

189 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
This is a good point. Previously this would have been a sweetener for the new owner. Now if it's lost effectively the car has to be taxed twice for the same month.

motoroller

Original Poster:

657 posts

172 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
SS2. said:
You can only claim back whole months so, if you sell the car in October, you won't be able to claim anything back.

But unless you'd planned to charge the new buyer an extra £40 for the benefit of <1 month's tax, that's no different to how it was under the old rules.
The difference is that under the old rules the new buyer could have driven the car home. New rules, they're liable to getting fined. It's a money making ploy.

They have to spend £250+ as soon as they buy the car, which ultimately means they have a better position to bargain.

The car's not worth a huge amount so these numbers are important.

raceboy

13,081 posts

279 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
Having just sold my car, with quite a bit of tax on it that the new owner now has, I'm looking for a new motor, and I've therefore been thinking about this whole 'tax' lark, if I pick a car up on Thursday and it's taxed for October, if I drive past an ANPR unit on the way home surely it'll not trigger any fines as the new owner hasn't posted the V5 back to Swansea yet, so although I do have to buy tax for that month anyway I don't need to faff about on my phone at the sellers place to be 'legal' on the way home. scratchchin

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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raceboy said:
Having just sold my car, with quite a bit of tax on it that the new owner now has, I'm looking for a new motor, and I've therefore been thinking about this whole 'tax' lark, if I pick a car up on Thursday and it's taxed for October, if I drive past an ANPR unit on the way home surely it'll not trigger any fines as the new owner hasn't posted the V5 back to Swansea yet, so although I do have to buy tax for that month anyway I don't need to faff about on my phone at the sellers place to be 'legal' on the way home. scratchchin
It depends what date they put on the V5. If you buy it on the 15th and put 15th as date of sale then although it will take a while to update if they are being very mean they could subsequently decide it wasn't taxed.

It remains to be seen just how bloody minded they are going to be.

To futher the confusion, their online tax checker isn't realtime and takes 5 days to update if tax has been cancelled or taken out!

TwigtheWonderkid

43,244 posts

149 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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motoroller said:
It's a money making ploy.
It really isn't. They're doing away with the physical disc, which most agree is a good thing. If they'd allowed tax to remain transferable, it would have led to a huge amount of disputes, with new owners getting stopped for driving without tax but claiming the previous owner saying he would include the tax, and the previous owner contradicting the new owner and saying he made it clear he would be cashing the tax in.

Without a physical disc, this is the only option. Everyone knows when they buy a car they have to tax it, in the same way they have to insure it.

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Without a physical disc, this is the only option. Everyone knows when they buy a car they have to tax it, in the same way they have to insure it.
They could simply make it run pro-rata 365 days a year. Not exactly rocket science to calculate part month refunds or purchases.

motoroller

Original Poster:

657 posts

172 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
It really isn't. They're doing away with the physical disc, which most agree is a good thing. If they'd allowed tax to remain transferable, it would have led to a huge amount of disputes, with new owners getting stopped for driving without tax but claiming the previous owner saying he would include the tax, and the previous owner contradicting the new owner and saying he made it clear he would be cashing the tax in.

Without a physical disc, this is the only option. Everyone knows when they buy a car they have to tax it, in the same way they have to insure it.
They stand to make more money from it, as used cars will effectively be taxed twice for the same month when they change hands. As confused_buyer said, if this wasn't a scheme to make money they'd refund pro-rata.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Monday 29th September 2014
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confused_buyer said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Without a physical disc, this is the only option. Everyone knows when they buy a car they have to tax it, in the same way they have to insure it.
They could simply make it run pro-rata 365 days a year. Not exactly rocket science to calculate part month refunds or purchases.
Exactly.

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
purely money making, the bds.

I'm now only buying/selling at the end of a month.

motoroller

Original Poster:

657 posts

172 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
JB! said:
purely money making, the bds.

I'm now only buying/selling at the end of a month.
Problem is, you can't. DVLA take a random amount of time from 2 weeks to a month to process the V5 in my experience, so you need to allow for that amount of time at least.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,244 posts

149 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
motoroller said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
It really isn't. They're doing away with the physical disc, which most agree is a good thing. If they'd allowed tax to remain transferable, it would have led to a huge amount of disputes, with new owners getting stopped for driving without tax but claiming the previous owner saying he would include the tax, and the previous owner contradicting the new owner and saying he made it clear he would be cashing the tax in.

Without a physical disc, this is the only option. Everyone knows when they buy a car they have to tax it, in the same way they have to insure it.
They stand to make more money from it, as used cars will effectively be taxed twice for the same month when they change hands. As confused_buyer said, if this wasn't a scheme to make money they'd refund pro-rata.
That was always the case, as not everyone sells their tax with their car. Many people would cash the tax in anyway, sell with no tax and the new buyer had to re-tax it. And DVLA would get paid twice for the one month. The only difference is now you have to cash the tax in.

Yes, they might make some money on it, but to say it's a money making scheme is total crap. It's certainly a money saving scheme, as not printing and posting tax discs will save millions, and seeing as it's us that pays for the DVLA, that's gotta be a good thing.

SS2.

14,455 posts

237 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
motoroller said:
Problem is, you can't. DVLA take a random amount of time from 2 weeks to a month to process the V5 in my experience, so you need to allow for that amount of time at least.
Not to purchase new VED, you don't.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
That was always the case, as not everyone sells their tax with their car. Many people would cash the tax in anyway, sell with no tax and the new buyer had to re-tax it. And DVLA would get paid twice for the one month. The only difference is now you have to cash the tax in.
Well yeah, that's the point - they're now enforcing a process which exclusively benefits them to the detriment of the 'customers'. You can cut it whichever way you want, it's still a stealth tax on car sales.

FWIW, I've never removed the tax of a vehicle I've sold (or had to immediately tax one I've bought), it's been part of the negotiation.

raceboy

13,081 posts

279 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
confused_buyer said:
It depends what date they put on the V5. If you buy it on the 15th and put 15th as date of sale then although it will take a while to update if they are being very mean they could subsequently decide it wasn't taxed.
But wouldn't they have to be a 'Time' box to the V5?
I would have been driving the car all day with 'my' tax, the new owner didn't pick the car up until 9pm, it's not like all these transactions happen at midnight. banghead

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
The date of refund and need to re-purchase will be the date you put for sale/transfer on the V5 not when they process it.

Obviously, if you trust the person you are selling to you could put the end of the month and/or delay sending the V5 off.

confused_buyer

6,610 posts

180 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
raceboy said:
But wouldn't they have to be a 'Time' box to the V5?
I would have been driving the car all day with 'my' tax, the new owner didn't pick the car up until 9pm, it's not like all these transactions happen at midnight. banghead
Well, that is what no one really seems to know. Including the DVLA if you ask them.

g7jhp

6,958 posts

237 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
The benefit to the new system is your tax is now aligned with your car insurance.

Now all they've got to do is find a way of aligning the MOT!

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Monday 29th September 2014
quotequote all
motoroller said:
Problem is, you can't. DVLA take a random amount of time from 2 weeks to a month to process the V5 in my experience, so you need to allow for that amount of time at least.
Can tax with the green slip though.

Provided the V5 is dated correctly you *should* get your refund...