STEEL IDLER TRANSFER GEAR V6

STEEL IDLER TRANSFER GEAR V6

Author
Discussion

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
I know a weak spot with the V6 is the fibre idler/transfer gear.
On my car a steel replacement has been fitted and this seems to be the standard accepted mod.
Having said that, garages were told before fitting a steel gear to make customers aware that the mod will be a little noisyeek.
Does this mean that you can hear a noise when the Engine is just ticking over or only when the Clutch is depressedconfused
Anyone experienced thisyes

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
The FIBRE gear 'that I know of' was never fitted to ANY TVR (this is the 'historic' failing of the TVR 'owners' perception of what is or is not a fibre gear) the item we see failing is the nylon/steel version of the gear that replaced the fibre gear before the V6 Essex engine went into a TVR (I will stand corrected IF an owner of a Tuscan V6 pops along with pictorial evidence of the broken gear).
'Aged' nylon gears take the colour of the oil that the engine has been running and poorly serviced cars with black discoloured oil have discoloured gears (IF you look at the recent gear failure posted on the forum you will see this)...there is a 2mm hole that sprays oil at the meshing point of the two gears and IF this fails then a nylon gear will fail.

THE steel gear is noisy, and mine has taken several years to 'calm down' it is a constant noise almost a drone unrelated to the clutch.

Adrian@

RCK974X

2,521 posts

148 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Done this on a Cologne engine, (which IS all fibre in OE form) and the steel gear makes quite a bit more noise, but I didn't notice from inside the car (Cortina, not a TVR). Lifting the bonnet though - sounds like engine has MASSIVE tappet clearances, and also there is a whine sounding almost like a dodgy bearing.

As Adrian says though, after a while it settles down a bit, and/or you get used to it....

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Adrian,
many thanks for the for the info, i am trying to learn as much about TVR's as possible.
Thanks also to is it Rick in NZ.I was in NZ from mid Jan 2013 to mid March 2013 and enjoyed all the bends going across the Wairarapa between Paraparaumu and Wellingtonsmile

hallsie

2,184 posts

219 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
The FIBRE gear 'that I know of' was never fitted to ANY TVR (this is the 'historic' failing of the TVR 'owners' perception of what is or is not a fibre gear) the item we see failing is the nylon/steel version of the gear that replaced the fibre gear before the V6 Essex engine went into a TVR (I will stand corrected IF an owner of a Tuscan V6 pops along with pictorial evidence of the broken gear).
'Aged' nylon gears take the colour of the oil that the engine has been running and poorly serviced cars with black discoloured oil have discoloured gears (IF you look at the recent gear failure posted on the forum you will see this)...there is a 2mm hole that sprays oil at the meshing point of the two gears and IF this fails then a nylon gear will fail.

THE steel gear is noisy, and mine has taken several years to 'calm down' it is a constant noise almost a drone unrelated to the clutch.

Adrian@
Adrian, if the reference above is to my recent cam gear failure, then I would like to furnish you with the FACTS.
The cam gear was BRAND NEW and still in the sealed packet, and failed after being run for only 1,500 miles.
The oil was changed at 800 miles as the engine was feshly rebuilt and was Valvoline VR1
the replacement oil was also Valvoline VR1.
I can guarantee that the oil feed was clear and cleaned.

Why you continue to have thinly veiled digs about my cars, powdercoating, refurbs, rebuilds etc is beyond me, but it is also the reason why I have rarely posted in the classics forum.

IF anyone is interested in what concludes with my car Ill be in the WEDGES section.

Thank you and goodnight.

Stu

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Nothing like that at all...I only looked at the pictures posted, if these are pictures from your newly a built engine then I would be asking why the front cover looks as it has been on the car for years, rust on the bolt threads and and and, given the facts then I rather expect that the company supplying the gear/engine is being dealt with via a claim.
http://s860.photobucket.com/user/hallsie/media/For...
..I referenced it as I saw it ...with the knowledge of years of taking these engines apart and putting them back together again.



Adrian@


Edited by Adrian@ on Tuesday 30th September 20:20

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Andrew...No, read my post ...the fibre gear was replaced by the nylon version...these days there are alloy versions and they are not noisy.
Adrian@

prideaux

4,969 posts

148 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
Andrew...No, read my post ...the fibre gear was replaced by the nylon version...these days there are alloy versions and they are not noisy.
Adrian@
Understand so what your saying is then you should either fit a steel/noisy or alloy version/not noisy but not a Fiber one
A

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
I will go and find a NEW fibre gear kept for the very reason of showing people what one 'looks like AND a NEW nylon gear and post some pictures.
Adrian@

RCK974X

2,521 posts

148 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
plasticpig72 said:
Adrian,
many thanks for the for the info, i am trying to learn as much about TVR's as possible.
Thanks also to is it Rick in NZ.I was in NZ from mid Jan 2013 to mid March 2013 and enjoyed all the bends going across the Wairarapa between Paraparaumu and Wellingtonsmile
I know all about the trip over the Rimutakas, as we live in Wairarapa, and worked in Wellington.
I brought the TVRs with me from UK...

Gamekeeper, what you say about machining of parts makes sense to me, after they wear a bit and get shiny, any whine type noises would subside, but on the Cologne at least, the tappet noise seems to be the biggest difference ?


Andy. (Name is original UK registration of my Wedge)

Edited by RCK974X on Tuesday 30th September 22:43

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Tuesday 30th September 2014
quotequote all
There USED to be STD and LARGE steel gears that you could buy into, IF, you could use a plastigauge kit AND I think that after fitting 10 or so large ones I installed the STD one in a race car (as it matter not how noisy it was) and never gave anyone the option to choose.
Adrian@

Slow M

2,726 posts

205 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
Presumably, width, as opposed to diameter.

Best,
B.

kev b

2,708 posts

165 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
I don't know if this is relevant but in the late Eighties I fitted a Scimitar/Essex V6 with a Swaymar engine using a straight cut cam drive gear set.

When new it was incredibly noisy, whining like an ERA on full boost, after a few thousand miles it settled down until eventually it could hardly be heard.

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
well this is usefull info, it seems many of us are Learning a little morebiggrin
It looks like my engine has done about 2,000 miles since rebuild and fitting of gear.
I must just go out there and drive it to get more miles on the counter and see if it quitens down rotate

bluezeeland

1,965 posts

158 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
plasticpig72 said:
I must just go out there and drive it
excellent idea ! cool

What is the plus in having standard and large gear ? Does it mean the cogs are smaller on the standard, hence better adjusting in degreeing ? (genuine question, just curious)

My camgear was fibre up to last spring, changed it for an alloy without changing the crank-gear as I reasoned the fibre would not 'wear' the steel gear (?) I can see Steve' point, tho, wish i'd 'dressed' the new cam-gear......

plasticpig72

Original Poster:

1,647 posts

148 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
i think the different sizes is to control the backlash which according to Burton should be .004" to .012"
Frank does that mean your 3000S originaly had a fibre wheeltongue out

bluezeeland

1,965 posts

158 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
Fiber/nylon or whatever, in any case it can be admired in my garage cupboard.......... wink

Edited by bluezeeland on Wednesday 1st October 13:29

Cerberus90

1,553 posts

212 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
I like the noise of the steel gear, makes it sound like it's got a supercharger on it, biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

kev b

2,708 posts

165 months

Wednesday 1st October 2014
quotequote all
For the first few miles it sounds like a Stuka on a bombing run!

Adrian@

4,290 posts

281 months

Sunday 5th October 2014
quotequote all


A new timing gear (nylon on steel) almost green in colour.


Full fibre gear (note there is NO steel centre), Ford stopped fitting these because of failure, thus giving the gear the historic 'failure' issue.


Old timing gear having 'taken' the colour of the aged old oil.

Adrian@

Edited by Adrian@ on Sunday 5th October 12:57