Blocking signalled roundabouts
Discussion
Hi,
Not posted here for a while but due to a back injury have been forced to commute to work a lot in city traffic (in the car rather than as usual on the pushbike). I consider myself to be a pretty courteous driver in town traffic, only "making progress" in appropriate situations - pointless in busy city traffic surely...
However, driving in the city is not what I would call my strong AD point and I wonder about this issue. There are a few traffic-light controlled roundabouts on my way in, none of which have box junction markings. The issue is that there is often a queue on the roundabout from the exit road that I wish to take. If I was to enter the roundabout and end up stopped on the roundabout when it turns red on my approach route the traffic to my left permitted onto the roundabout with a green light could not advance forward to their desired exit, which may be a clear exit after the one that I would be blocking. Of course, this happens all the time and is a common cause of unnecessary horn usage, aggressive manoeuvres and accidents.
This morning, as I would normally do, I was in this position at the front of my queue and seeing my exit and the portion of the roundabout lane from the exit to my left was blocked I stopped and the lights then turned to red. The woman behind me clearly took exception to this, gesticulating and generally looking like a complete mentalist. When the lights went green and I moved off slowly to match the speed of the traffic exiting the roundabout she actually tried to cut around me by nearly glancing the waiting traffic and mounting the curb on the left. All this with traffic ahead moving at my speed (around 3-4mph). I took avoiding action and didn't react but got a blast of horn from her. I rarely come across anything quite so silly and generally don't provoke it.
This isn't really a post just to say that I came across an idiot, which in my mind I clearly did. However, the questions are:
- Is there a highway code or legal stance on blocking signalled multi-lane roundabouts by entering them when the exit is not clear (or likely to clear during the manoeuvre), assuming no yellow box? I am prepared to admit that I don't know the answer to this but recognise it's a common issue.
- Did I cause unnecessary annoyance to another motorist i.e. should I have just advanced forward as the lesser of two evils, potentially preventing someone else from going "straight on" when their lights changed to green?
Hope this post is clear and doesn't sound too ridiculous!
Steve
Not posted here for a while but due to a back injury have been forced to commute to work a lot in city traffic (in the car rather than as usual on the pushbike). I consider myself to be a pretty courteous driver in town traffic, only "making progress" in appropriate situations - pointless in busy city traffic surely...
However, driving in the city is not what I would call my strong AD point and I wonder about this issue. There are a few traffic-light controlled roundabouts on my way in, none of which have box junction markings. The issue is that there is often a queue on the roundabout from the exit road that I wish to take. If I was to enter the roundabout and end up stopped on the roundabout when it turns red on my approach route the traffic to my left permitted onto the roundabout with a green light could not advance forward to their desired exit, which may be a clear exit after the one that I would be blocking. Of course, this happens all the time and is a common cause of unnecessary horn usage, aggressive manoeuvres and accidents.
This morning, as I would normally do, I was in this position at the front of my queue and seeing my exit and the portion of the roundabout lane from the exit to my left was blocked I stopped and the lights then turned to red. The woman behind me clearly took exception to this, gesticulating and generally looking like a complete mentalist. When the lights went green and I moved off slowly to match the speed of the traffic exiting the roundabout she actually tried to cut around me by nearly glancing the waiting traffic and mounting the curb on the left. All this with traffic ahead moving at my speed (around 3-4mph). I took avoiding action and didn't react but got a blast of horn from her. I rarely come across anything quite so silly and generally don't provoke it.
This isn't really a post just to say that I came across an idiot, which in my mind I clearly did. However, the questions are:
- Is there a highway code or legal stance on blocking signalled multi-lane roundabouts by entering them when the exit is not clear (or likely to clear during the manoeuvre), assuming no yellow box? I am prepared to admit that I don't know the answer to this but recognise it's a common issue.
- Did I cause unnecessary annoyance to another motorist i.e. should I have just advanced forward as the lesser of two evils, potentially preventing someone else from going "straight on" when their lights changed to green?
Hope this post is clear and doesn't sound too ridiculous!
Steve
Traffic lights on roundabouts are often a poor solution for junctions which were originally designed for much lower traffic levels. Where traffic levels have become excessive for a roundabout, the better solution is usually to redesign the junction, but it is much cheaper to install traffic lights so it seems to have become the default solution for local authorities and highways agencies.
I speak from much personal experience here - my daily commute includes negotiating Simister Island at junction 18 of the M60 which is controlled by four sets of traffic lights. I passed junction 17 at about 7.30am yesterday and it then took took 30 minutes until I rejoined the M60 clockwise at J18. Distance covered? About half-a-mile.
The reason? Exactly the same problem described by the OP. People tend to blindly follow the vehicle in front until it stops, without giving a single thought to their own position or whether they are affecting anyone else's ability to proceed. Traffic light controlled roundabouts work fine up to a certain level of traffic flow, but get beyond that flow level and the fact that each set of lights is followed shortly by another set of lights, combined with the "sheep" mentality of drivers simply tagging, unthinkingly, to the bumper of the car in front, can effectively gridlock a junction. And once its gridlocked, more traffic builds up, people become more frustrated, and then they're even less likely to think intelligently when they actually get to the junction itself.
The roundabout, literally, becomes a vicious circle.
The only solution is to act as the OP did and leave some space on the roundabout where appropriate. If everyone did this, rather than allowing the roundabout to become completely clogged, then traffic would keep flowing and we'd all be a little happier.
Would "box" junctions be the solution? They might be, but as I discussed here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...people seem perfectly happy to completely disregard box junction markings these days too. You'd think it would be worth a try though, wouldn't you? How much does yellow paint cost?
I speak from much personal experience here - my daily commute includes negotiating Simister Island at junction 18 of the M60 which is controlled by four sets of traffic lights. I passed junction 17 at about 7.30am yesterday and it then took took 30 minutes until I rejoined the M60 clockwise at J18. Distance covered? About half-a-mile.
The reason? Exactly the same problem described by the OP. People tend to blindly follow the vehicle in front until it stops, without giving a single thought to their own position or whether they are affecting anyone else's ability to proceed. Traffic light controlled roundabouts work fine up to a certain level of traffic flow, but get beyond that flow level and the fact that each set of lights is followed shortly by another set of lights, combined with the "sheep" mentality of drivers simply tagging, unthinkingly, to the bumper of the car in front, can effectively gridlock a junction. And once its gridlocked, more traffic builds up, people become more frustrated, and then they're even less likely to think intelligently when they actually get to the junction itself.
The roundabout, literally, becomes a vicious circle.
The only solution is to act as the OP did and leave some space on the roundabout where appropriate. If everyone did this, rather than allowing the roundabout to become completely clogged, then traffic would keep flowing and we'd all be a little happier.
Would "box" junctions be the solution? They might be, but as I discussed here...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...people seem perfectly happy to completely disregard box junction markings these days too. You'd think it would be worth a try though, wouldn't you? How much does yellow paint cost?
You should try this one at rush hour!
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8733827,-8.4695596,...
Approaching from the South (early landing at Cork airport), North bound on the N27 Kinsale Road you hit the first set of lights where the white road (under the Travel Lodge text) joins the N27.
This junction gets blocked by 90% of the traffic trying to turn right to get at the South Ring.
Next you hit another set of lights to get onto the roundabout. If you're turning right here to get onto the South Ring going towards the east, you hit another set of lights right under the flyover, then you proceed round to about 1 o'clock on the roundabout to wait at another set of lights to exit!
Utter madness and chaos ensues!
Those who've done this at a busy time will know exactly what I'm talking about.
Personally I make a point of not joining the round about unless there is space for me to drive into, i.e. don't block lanes. Sometimes however you really have no choice, you could sit there all day.
Always remember though it is your decision to join a signaled roundabout, if you don't think it is safe, or you will block other traffic, then wait your turn. Personally I take little interest in (often ignore) what the driver behind thinks, as they can't always see what I can see.
I'm far more interested in making eye contact with the drivers to the right, a couple of hand gestures and a smile will often assist. A hand up I've seen you, ahh you've seen me, point to myself point to the gap, thumb up, can I go? Big smile and a quick thank you wave, seems to work every time.
It's called cooperation, the person behind beeping and intimidating is not cooperating.
https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8733827,-8.4695596,...
Approaching from the South (early landing at Cork airport), North bound on the N27 Kinsale Road you hit the first set of lights where the white road (under the Travel Lodge text) joins the N27.
This junction gets blocked by 90% of the traffic trying to turn right to get at the South Ring.
Next you hit another set of lights to get onto the roundabout. If you're turning right here to get onto the South Ring going towards the east, you hit another set of lights right under the flyover, then you proceed round to about 1 o'clock on the roundabout to wait at another set of lights to exit!
Utter madness and chaos ensues!
Those who've done this at a busy time will know exactly what I'm talking about.
Personally I make a point of not joining the round about unless there is space for me to drive into, i.e. don't block lanes. Sometimes however you really have no choice, you could sit there all day.
Always remember though it is your decision to join a signaled roundabout, if you don't think it is safe, or you will block other traffic, then wait your turn. Personally I take little interest in (often ignore) what the driver behind thinks, as they can't always see what I can see.
I'm far more interested in making eye contact with the drivers to the right, a couple of hand gestures and a smile will often assist. A hand up I've seen you, ahh you've seen me, point to myself point to the gap, thumb up, can I go? Big smile and a quick thank you wave, seems to work every time.
It's called cooperation, the person behind beeping and intimidating is not cooperating.
I have encountered a traffic light controlled r/b with marked areas at the entrances(either marked 'keep clear' or hashed as with a box junction, I can't remember as it was some time ago); it seemed to work well enough in rush hour and it was obvious that without the marking it would clog instantly.
I saw a woman at this junction swearing, sounding her horn and gesticulating at a guy who'd stopped keeping this yellow box clear before driving round him and stopping right in it. I've seen her on other occasions texting while driving. Some people out there really think they're right and good drivers but haven't a clue what they're doing. All we can do is do the right think and not be bullied or antagonised by them.
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