Advice on whats happening to my dog Dottie
Discussion
Hi guys.
Im looking for some advice and help about whats happening to Dottie, my 5 yr old Jack Russel/Patterdale cross.
About 18months ago, April last year, we had just sat down for dinner, and she started to eat here dinner, when she started to scrabble a bit on the kitchen floor, and seemed a bit paniced. My first thought was if she was choking, and after putting my fingers down her throat, a few pieces of dog biscuits can up, but the episode continued for a couple more minutes. She then seemed to come round and drank some water, but a couple of minutes she started again. After a couple more minutes she came round, but by now we were in the car on the way to the vets, and by the time we got to the vets she was back to her usual self. The vet checked her over and couldn't find anything wrong, other than a slightly red throat, but he put that down to me possible scratching her throat when I thought she was choking. We went away resonably happy that she had just been choking, and maybe it was some kind of panic attack.
Fast forward 8 months to November last year, and we were in bed around midnightish, wed been sleeping for an hour or so, and she was under the blanket by our feet, and she started to have an episode again. We were staying up my parents house while having work done in our house so while I tried to calm Dottie, my wife woke my parents so they could see. It sounds stupid but we were panicking a bit and needed to do something. The episode lasted about 2-3 minutes, and within 30 seconds to a minute after, she was running round wanting to play with her ball. We took her to the vets the next day, who again, couldn't find anything wrong, but took some blood to run some tests. They came back a few days later largely normal, with I think the liver test slightly outside the normal range, but the vet said the 'normal' range was an average across many dogs so the result could be normal for her.
I July this year I was doing some work in the house and she had another episode. The same symptoms as the previous times but all over and done with and running around chasing a ball within 2 minutes. We managed to video it that time and showed the vet who was pretty sure it wasn't epilepsy because she is still concious and reacts to you calling her. She said to just monitor it and make note if any patterns appear.
With the spacing up until then, we started to wonder if it was maybe triggered by hormones, and whether it was lining up with when she would have been having her seasons if she wasn't spayed.
About a month ago she had another one when we were in bed and although it was a bit sooner than the previous times we just made a note of anything we could think of. The only thing that really linked all the episodes is whether she was too hot.
She then had another one Sunday before last, that again was only a minute or so long and we filmed it again. It was very hot in the house at the time, it was sunny outside and I was working on the heating so again we suspected overheating. We have since got some sulphuer rock for her water to try to help, but with the sporadic spacings its hard to tell, but we thought we would give it a go.
Well last night about 1.45 she had another episode, and to be honest, even though she was under the blanket in bed, she didn't feel too hot during the episode but was panting a bit afterwoods. But again within a minute it was over and she was running around wanting to play like nothing had happened.
Were now starting to get a bit worried and upset that things are getting worse, and the last thing we want is for her to be suffering, but she doesn't seem to show any other signs of discomfort before or after, and its probably us that are suffering from worrying. I pretty much didn't sleep last night, and for the last year I've had trouble sleeping because every time makes a noise or any type, I wakeup thinking something is happening.
The thing were worried apart is if they are getting closer together, although because we work in the week, we cant be 100% sure she hasnt had any when were not around.
Were going to the vets again tonight so hopefully then can help. Im still feeling really guilty about not insuring her when she was a pup, and that plays on my mind, if money will be limiting what we can do for her. One of the first vets we saw mentioned maybe having an mri scan in the future and that it was £1500, which to be honest we could manage, but don't know if we could manage much more for treatments/operations. I'm scared at the moment we will have to be making decisions soon, that we didn't expect to be making for years yet.
The symptoms seem to be,
Clumpsy walking and scrabbling
Conscious and will come to you if called
Doesn't lose bladder control
Lasts about 1-2 minutes
Recovers pretty much immediately afterwoods, then has a drink and wants to play ball.
I've put a couple of videos on youtube to try to get some advice from anyone who has experienced anything similar.
http://youtu.be/BmUG6Dx9dH0
http://youtu.be/3OMDMobzjR0
Sorry for the rediculously long post, I just started typing and couldn't stop.
Gareth
Edited to fix links, they appear to be working now.
Im looking for some advice and help about whats happening to Dottie, my 5 yr old Jack Russel/Patterdale cross.
About 18months ago, April last year, we had just sat down for dinner, and she started to eat here dinner, when she started to scrabble a bit on the kitchen floor, and seemed a bit paniced. My first thought was if she was choking, and after putting my fingers down her throat, a few pieces of dog biscuits can up, but the episode continued for a couple more minutes. She then seemed to come round and drank some water, but a couple of minutes she started again. After a couple more minutes she came round, but by now we were in the car on the way to the vets, and by the time we got to the vets she was back to her usual self. The vet checked her over and couldn't find anything wrong, other than a slightly red throat, but he put that down to me possible scratching her throat when I thought she was choking. We went away resonably happy that she had just been choking, and maybe it was some kind of panic attack.
Fast forward 8 months to November last year, and we were in bed around midnightish, wed been sleeping for an hour or so, and she was under the blanket by our feet, and she started to have an episode again. We were staying up my parents house while having work done in our house so while I tried to calm Dottie, my wife woke my parents so they could see. It sounds stupid but we were panicking a bit and needed to do something. The episode lasted about 2-3 minutes, and within 30 seconds to a minute after, she was running round wanting to play with her ball. We took her to the vets the next day, who again, couldn't find anything wrong, but took some blood to run some tests. They came back a few days later largely normal, with I think the liver test slightly outside the normal range, but the vet said the 'normal' range was an average across many dogs so the result could be normal for her.
I July this year I was doing some work in the house and she had another episode. The same symptoms as the previous times but all over and done with and running around chasing a ball within 2 minutes. We managed to video it that time and showed the vet who was pretty sure it wasn't epilepsy because she is still concious and reacts to you calling her. She said to just monitor it and make note if any patterns appear.
With the spacing up until then, we started to wonder if it was maybe triggered by hormones, and whether it was lining up with when she would have been having her seasons if she wasn't spayed.
About a month ago she had another one when we were in bed and although it was a bit sooner than the previous times we just made a note of anything we could think of. The only thing that really linked all the episodes is whether she was too hot.
She then had another one Sunday before last, that again was only a minute or so long and we filmed it again. It was very hot in the house at the time, it was sunny outside and I was working on the heating so again we suspected overheating. We have since got some sulphuer rock for her water to try to help, but with the sporadic spacings its hard to tell, but we thought we would give it a go.
Well last night about 1.45 she had another episode, and to be honest, even though she was under the blanket in bed, she didn't feel too hot during the episode but was panting a bit afterwoods. But again within a minute it was over and she was running around wanting to play like nothing had happened.
Were now starting to get a bit worried and upset that things are getting worse, and the last thing we want is for her to be suffering, but she doesn't seem to show any other signs of discomfort before or after, and its probably us that are suffering from worrying. I pretty much didn't sleep last night, and for the last year I've had trouble sleeping because every time makes a noise or any type, I wakeup thinking something is happening.
The thing were worried apart is if they are getting closer together, although because we work in the week, we cant be 100% sure she hasnt had any when were not around.
Were going to the vets again tonight so hopefully then can help. Im still feeling really guilty about not insuring her when she was a pup, and that plays on my mind, if money will be limiting what we can do for her. One of the first vets we saw mentioned maybe having an mri scan in the future and that it was £1500, which to be honest we could manage, but don't know if we could manage much more for treatments/operations. I'm scared at the moment we will have to be making decisions soon, that we didn't expect to be making for years yet.
The symptoms seem to be,
Clumpsy walking and scrabbling
Conscious and will come to you if called
Doesn't lose bladder control
Lasts about 1-2 minutes
Recovers pretty much immediately afterwoods, then has a drink and wants to play ball.
I've put a couple of videos on youtube to try to get some advice from anyone who has experienced anything similar.
http://youtu.be/BmUG6Dx9dH0
http://youtu.be/3OMDMobzjR0
Sorry for the rediculously long post, I just started typing and couldn't stop.
Gareth
Edited to fix links, they appear to be working now.
Edited by gazzarose on Thursday 9th October 21:51
Edited by gazzarose on Thursday 9th October 21:53
Did the vet try any proprioceptive tests or reflex tests? Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXpGX6xhJdM
ETA: I found the vids
ETA: I found the vids
Edited by Mr Tom on Thursday 9th October 17:08
Thanks for the reply
No not that I can remember, but I just tried the ones in the video and she did everything instantly.
That's half the problem though. The rest of the time she completely her self. Always running around chasing a ball or pestering you to play. And never seems to have mobility issues or balance issues normally.
Its one of the problems where its only ever us that sees it, and can't be assessed directly by the vet.
The episode (if that's even the right word, its just seizure or fit upsets me a bit) she had last night, wasn't as bad as the ones in my videos. She was a bit unsteady but following me around the room and wagging her tail, but I don't know whether the wagging was a symptom or whether she was doing it herself.
Our appointment is 7.20 in the vet, so we've still got a couple of hours yet, and the waiting is killing me.
No not that I can remember, but I just tried the ones in the video and she did everything instantly.
That's half the problem though. The rest of the time she completely her self. Always running around chasing a ball or pestering you to play. And never seems to have mobility issues or balance issues normally.
Its one of the problems where its only ever us that sees it, and can't be assessed directly by the vet.
The episode (if that's even the right word, its just seizure or fit upsets me a bit) she had last night, wasn't as bad as the ones in my videos. She was a bit unsteady but following me around the room and wagging her tail, but I don't know whether the wagging was a symptom or whether she was doing it herself.
Our appointment is 7.20 in the vet, so we've still got a couple of hours yet, and the waiting is killing me.
gazzarose said:
Thanks for the reply
No not that I can remember, but I just tried the ones in the video and she did everything instantly.
That's half the problem though. The rest of the time she completely her self. Always running around chasing a ball or pestering you to play. And never seems to have mobility issues or balance issues normally.
Its one of the problems where its only ever us that sees it, and can't be assessed directly by the vet.
The episode (if that's even the right word, its just seizure or fit upsets me a bit) she had last night, wasn't as bad as the ones in my videos. She was a bit unsteady but following me around the room and wagging her tail, but I don't know whether the wagging was a symptom or whether she was doing it herself.
Our appointment is 7.20 in the vet, so we've still got a couple of hours yet, and the waiting is killing me.
Let us know how you get on tonight. She may need to be referred to a specialist?No not that I can remember, but I just tried the ones in the video and she did everything instantly.
That's half the problem though. The rest of the time she completely her self. Always running around chasing a ball or pestering you to play. And never seems to have mobility issues or balance issues normally.
Its one of the problems where its only ever us that sees it, and can't be assessed directly by the vet.
The episode (if that's even the right word, its just seizure or fit upsets me a bit) she had last night, wasn't as bad as the ones in my videos. She was a bit unsteady but following me around the room and wagging her tail, but I don't know whether the wagging was a symptom or whether she was doing it herself.
Our appointment is 7.20 in the vet, so we've still got a couple of hours yet, and the waiting is killing me.
I think referral would be good. Not seen video yet but does she snore/snort at all?
Have they considered elongated soft palate or tracheal collapse?
Ok just seen video, if your vets are at a loss you definitely want a referral.
Epilepsy should be considered (it comes in many different forms), heart conditions and Addisons disease should also be checked for.
She does need more investigation, I know I would be wanting it for my dog. I think my vets would want to investigate something like this more aswell. Hope you get some answers soon.
Have they considered elongated soft palate or tracheal collapse?
Ok just seen video, if your vets are at a loss you definitely want a referral.
Epilepsy should be considered (it comes in many different forms), heart conditions and Addisons disease should also be checked for.
She does need more investigation, I know I would be wanting it for my dog. I think my vets would want to investigate something like this more aswell. Hope you get some answers soon.
Edited by bexVN on Thursday 9th October 18:18
She doesn't really snore. Only the personal cute little snore if she falls asleep upside down on the sofa and and doesn't snort. Up until now they hadn't really suggested anything that it could be.
The only thing that had changed in the last few weeks/month, is she's has a bit of a red stomach. It comes and goes a bit depending how much she's been scratching. She tends to rub her belly on the rug. And she has been nibbling the hair on her back legs. Whether she's picked something up in the garden like a flea or something. But I've had a good look and couldn't see anything.
The only thing that had changed in the last few weeks/month, is she's has a bit of a red stomach. It comes and goes a bit depending how much she's been scratching. She tends to rub her belly on the rug. And she has been nibbling the hair on her back legs. Whether she's picked something up in the garden like a flea or something. But I've had a good look and couldn't see anything.
Back from the vets.
The vet have her a check over listen to her heart and stuff and watched the videos. She thinks they may be partial seizures. She put Dottie on a low dosage of Epiphen. We've got to monitor her this week then go back next week for a check up. At least things are moving forward. I was a bit scared by the thought of buying tablets for life, and I know it sounds really shallow, but it was worrying me, not knowing how much things are. But thanks to advice on other threads on here, I've looked at prices, and at the current dose, the pills are 8p a day so it's one less thing on my mind.
The vet have her a check over listen to her heart and stuff and watched the videos. She thinks they may be partial seizures. She put Dottie on a low dosage of Epiphen. We've got to monitor her this week then go back next week for a check up. At least things are moving forward. I was a bit scared by the thought of buying tablets for life, and I know it sounds really shallow, but it was worrying me, not knowing how much things are. But thanks to advice on other threads on here, I've looked at prices, and at the current dose, the pills are 8p a day so it's one less thing on my mind.
Let's hope you see a difference, re the heart you can get halter monitors that the dog wears for 24hrs to ensure no changes are happening esp at the point of an episode. I think that you can only get them from cardiology referral practice's, something your vets may want to consider if no response to the Epiphen.
They should check her liver enzymes if she does stay on them to check they aren't affecting the liver (esp as she had very slightly raised levels when last checked)
Really hope the meds work, she's a little cutie
Is she insured because she will need more than just the tablets if she does stay on them as she will need regular blood tests to assess her phenobarbital levels and it would be covered by insurance.
They should check her liver enzymes if she does stay on them to check they aren't affecting the liver (esp as she had very slightly raised levels when last checked)
Really hope the meds work, she's a little cutie
Is she insured because she will need more than just the tablets if she does stay on them as she will need regular blood tests to assess her phenobarbital levels and it would be covered by insurance.
Edited by bexVN on Thursday 9th October 21:21
Unfortunately she isn't insured. And I do feel guilty about it, but it's just one of those things you don't think you'll ever need until you need it. I'm not worried too much about the odd blood test.
Now that we've got a bit of a plan I do feel much better. It may sound soft, but because we haven't got children yet, she's our baby and it makes you worry. Good knows what I'll be like with a kid. I think I'm just one of the world's natural worriers.
Now that we've got a bit of a plan I do feel much better. It may sound soft, but because we haven't got children yet, she's our baby and it makes you worry. Good knows what I'll be like with a kid. I think I'm just one of the world's natural worriers.
gazzarose said:
Unfortunately she isn't insured. And I do feel guilty about it, but it's just one of those things you don't think you'll ever need until you need it. I'm not worried too much about the odd blood test.
Now that we've got a bit of a plan I do feel much better. It may sound soft, but because we haven't got children yet, she's our baby and it makes you worry. Good knows what I'll be like with a kid. I think I'm just one of the world's natural worriers.
Most of us on this forum are the same when it comes to our pets Now that we've got a bit of a plan I do feel much better. It may sound soft, but because we haven't got children yet, she's our baby and it makes you worry. Good knows what I'll be like with a kid. I think I'm just one of the world's natural worriers.
. I worry about my son and my four legged friends on a similar par with each other!!Little update, it now nearly 3 weeks since the last episode, and a week since we had to go back for a checkup. At the moment all seems fine with do more episodes, so fingers crossed the tablets are working. We've got to go back in 5 weeks so she can have a blood test to look at the level of epiphen in her system , then adjust the dose up/down to keep it at a therapeutic level.
And as ever shes just as mad, she currently running round in circles with my inlaws dog!
Gareth
And as ever shes just as mad, she currently running round in circles with my inlaws dog!
Gareth
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