UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
don4l said:
eharding said:
That Diane Abbott, in her own typically blinkered way, doesn't really understand what UKIP has a problem with - just because they have a problem with her, she assumes the diva proposition that her particular community is the sole recipient of UKIP's spite, and flaps her gums appropriately.
What she doesn't understand is that UKIP has undergone a metastasis - and now attacks anything and everything that *isn't* UKIP.
Where UKIP was once an unsightly mole on the face of British politics, it is now a particularly nasty type of cancer.
We need to kill it - because whilst cancers simply understand the imperative to grow, they have no empathy with the organism they exist within.
Such is UKIP.
http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/What she doesn't understand is that UKIP has undergone a metastasis - and now attacks anything and everything that *isn't* UKIP.
Where UKIP was once an unsightly mole on the face of British politics, it is now a particularly nasty type of cancer.
We need to kill it - because whilst cancers simply understand the imperative to grow, they have no empathy with the organism they exist within.
Such is UKIP.
zygalski said:
Greg66 said:
I think I can a common thread there. It's elusive, but I'm fairly sure it's there.
What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
UKIP are a party for proud British Nationalists. Obviously there are no similarities whatsoever to the British National Party & no former BNP supporter would ever dream of voting UKIP as the parties have absolutely nothing in common.What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/quiz/2014/may/...
Easy for anyone even paying half attention, not sure what the point is a part from trying to bait kippers and pander to the prejudices of Guardian readers.
Seriously though what is the point of trying to raise the bar on this thread when continual crap like that is posted.
Fail.
BGARK said:
The following statements represent highlights of UKIP's policy announcements as made at the Doncaster Conference. More detailed announcements will be made in the run up to the 2015 General Election.
I could agree with 75-90% of that.Quite a bit more detail required in a number of areas, but overall a decent basis for a manifesto.
I am a Conservative supporter, but if UKIP stood the best chance of winning where I was I would vote for them.
eharding said:
Christ - is Nigel shaking that one's hand or just checking he's got a pulse?
That being said, the poor old bloke is probably overjoyed to find he still qualifies for the 'Kipper Youth wing.
eharding, maybe we should just kill all people over a certain age, is that what you think, you are a nasty piece of work.That being said, the poor old bloke is probably overjoyed to find he still qualifies for the 'Kipper Youth wing.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/
eharding said:
don4l said:
eharding said:
don4l said:
Esseesse said:
Diane Abbott on This Week claiming that UKIP centres around having a problem with black people.
She has put on a bit of weight, hasn't she?Essesse - next week will probably have said:
Diane Abbott on This Week claiming that UKIP centres around having a problem with fat black people.
What she doesn't understand is that UKIP has undergone a metastasis - and now attacks anything and everything that *isn't* UKIP.
Where UKIP was once an unsightly mole on the face of British politics, it is now a particularly nasty type of cancer.
We need to kill it - because whilst cancers simply understand the imperative to grow, they have no empathy with the organism they exist within.
Such is UKIP.
I can smell your desperation...JagLover said:
I could agree with 75-90% of that.
Quite a bit more detail required in a number of areas, but overall a decent basis for a manifesto.
I am a Conservative supporter, but if UKIP stood the best chance of winning where I was I would vote for them.
All manifestos contain a fair amount of rubbish and UKIP's is very high on rubbish.Quite a bit more detail required in a number of areas, but overall a decent basis for a manifesto.
I am a Conservative supporter, but if UKIP stood the best chance of winning where I was I would vote for them.
However, its a real problem for UKIP is that its main policy is
"UKIP will leave the EU, and take back control of our borders. Work permits will be permitted to fill skills gaps in the UK jobs market"
But to do that we have to leave the EU and the UKIP policy on that is:
"We would negotiate a bespoke trade agreement with the EU to enable our businesses to continue trading to mutual advantage."
Now how long would that take? The answer is years, I believe the Canadian agreement with the EU took 12 years.
We also have the gem:
"We would reoccupy the UK’s vacant seat at the World Trade Organisation, ensuring that we continue to enjoy ‘most favoured nation’ status in trade with the EU, as is required under WTO rules."
Dr North on Eureferendum.com shows why this is not even possible if you negotiate a trade agreement with the EU.
So the central policy of UKIP will not work or at the very least will take years to implement. Such is the intellectual rigor of the party.
NicD said:
eharding said:
That Diane Abbott, in her own typically blinkered way, doesn't really understand what UKIP has a problem with - just because they have a problem with her, she assumes the diva proposition that her particular community is the sole recipient of UKIP's spite, and flaps her gums appropriately.
What she doesn't understand is that UKIP has undergone a metastasis - and now attacks anything and everything that *isn't* UKIP.
Where UKIP was once an unsightly mole on the face of British politics, it is now a particularly nasty type of cancer.
We need to kill it - because whilst cancers simply understand the imperative to grow, they have no empathy with the organism they exist within.
Such is UKIP.
Please seek help. It is disturbing to think you have to fend for yourself. Even our broken NHS should find time to assist your mental issues.What she doesn't understand is that UKIP has undergone a metastasis - and now attacks anything and everything that *isn't* UKIP.
Where UKIP was once an unsightly mole on the face of British politics, it is now a particularly nasty type of cancer.
We need to kill it - because whilst cancers simply understand the imperative to grow, they have no empathy with the organism they exist within.
Such is UKIP.
UKIP policies are the policies of fear. If you keep on repeating this rubbish, then it eventually becomes normalised.
Britain on the whole is not 'broken'. Services are not stretched due to an influx of foreigners, but due generally to the austerity budget cuts. Still, it's easier to lay the blame on 'the foreigners', rather than accept it's because we all had a party for the last 15 years, and now can't face the hangover.
P.S. I agree with Diane Abbot, I think this is latent racism that is at the heart of the rise of UKIP. The party leaders can keep on repeating it's about "controlled immigration", but I suggest the rank and file just see it as "England for the English".
tangerine_sedge said:
The NHS is so broken by the influx of foreigners freeloading, that on Tuesday, I managed to phone my local surgery at 14:00, get an appointment with the doctor for 17:10 and have my diagnosis and medicine from the local pharmacy by 18:00. All these foreigners coming here and not impacting our services much at all!
conversely, try that here and it takes at least 3-4 days to get an appointment, (and this is not an area of mass immigration)there is not single cause to the issues of the NHS, GP contracts are some of it, as is PFI and mass immigration and NHS tourists, but the list is a lot longer than this.
FiF said:
Seriously though what is the point of trying to raise the bar on this thread when continual crap like that is posted.
.
I think the bar was drained rather than raised last night..
Any attempts to link to articles that aren't completely partisan get ignored. In the last 24 hours anti UKIP posts which would be considered racist or ageist are only notable because they make the childish attempts to link UKIP to Hitler or the BNP look less nasty.
This is an amazingly exciting time in politics. Like them or loathe them UKIP have lifted some of the taboos, immigration, the EU, grammar schools, right of recall, etc they all seemed to have been buried in consensus politics until recently. Instead of taking it personally against their tribe, the opportunity to confront and win debates on the issues should be welcome to all the parties. Having UKIP or even the Greens should be a great chance to deal with the issues be it in parliament or on TV debates etc but instead they seem to resent their presence.
The needless insults and misrepresentation on here seems entirely consistent with a PM who thinks photoshopped pictures of his opposition in bed together is funny and a Labour Party that campaigns in Middleton on keeping the NHS from being privatised after they PFI'd the local hospitals!
The bar needs raising everywhere.
zygalski said:
Greg66 said:
I think I can a common thread there. It's elusive, but I'm fairly sure it's there.
What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
UKIP are a party for proud British Nationalists. Obviously there are no similarities whatsoever to the British National Party & no former BNP supporter would ever dream of voting UKIP as the parties have absolutely nothing in common.What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/quiz/2014/may/...
Scuffers said:
tangerine_sedge said:
The NHS is so broken by the influx of foreigners freeloading, that on Tuesday, I managed to phone my local surgery at 14:00, get an appointment with the doctor for 17:10 and have my diagnosis and medicine from the local pharmacy by 18:00. All these foreigners coming here and not impacting our services much at all!
conversely, try that here and it takes at least 3-4 days to get an appointment, (and this is not an area of mass immigration)there is not single cause to the issues of the NHS, GP contracts are some of it, as is PFI and mass immigration and NHS tourists, but the list is a lot longer than this.
tangerine_sedge said:
). Still UKIP keep on repeating the untruths as if they are fact.
And their tabloid devouring follows lap it up as fact. That's the worrying part of it.FOr a while, prior to the Euro elections I found myself starting to think they had a valid place in politics. And then their campaigns started for the Euro elections and they became a parody. Just an endless stream of Daily Mail headlines lapped up and recited by the masses. Wee, the masses of a certain demograph anyway.
tangerine_sedge said:
Scuffers said:
tangerine_sedge said:
The NHS is so broken by the influx of foreigners freeloading, that on Tuesday, I managed to phone my local surgery at 14:00, get an appointment with the doctor for 17:10 and have my diagnosis and medicine from the local pharmacy by 18:00. All these foreigners coming here and not impacting our services much at all!
conversely, try that here and it takes at least 3-4 days to get an appointment, (and this is not an area of mass immigration)there is not single cause to the issues of the NHS, GP contracts are some of it, as is PFI and mass immigration and NHS tourists, but the list is a lot longer than this.
Could I use the experience of my daughter who wanted an appointment to follow up on some tests and the next stage of an issue that the NHS have been attempting to diagnose for 3 years. Called end September for appointment, offered Oct 22.
Is that evidence that the whole of the NHS is broken? No it isn't and I have no intention of even beginning to attempt to do so.
Stop being childish.
FiF said:
Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence of anything except one very small experience in a very complex scenario.
Could I use the experience of my daughter who wanted an appointment to follow up on some tests and the next stage of an issue that the NHS have been attempting to diagnose for 3 years. Called end September for appointment, offered Oct 22.
Is that evidence that the whole of the NHS is broken? No it isn't and I have no intention of even beginning to attempt to do so.
Stop being childish.
I get your point, but how can you fight rhetoric with fact?Could I use the experience of my daughter who wanted an appointment to follow up on some tests and the next stage of an issue that the NHS have been attempting to diagnose for 3 years. Called end September for appointment, offered Oct 22.
Is that evidence that the whole of the NHS is broken? No it isn't and I have no intention of even beginning to attempt to do so.
Stop being childish.
UKIP don't use fact to support the rhetoric, they just use alarmist soundbites. TO attempt to use fact you would need to actually define what would make the NHS 'broken' and given that 'broken' is not even a healthcare thing, its impossible to do.
In the meantime the point is that for many of us the NHS seems to be functioning fine so that will remain the starting point for any discussion and UKIP should actually have to prove their point rather than us have to disprove it.
brenflys777 said:
FiF said:
Seriously though what is the point of trying to raise the bar on this thread when continual crap like that is posted.
.
I think the bar was drained rather than raised last night..
Any attempts to link to articles that aren't completely partisan get ignored. In the last 24 hours anti UKIP posts which would be considered racist or ageist are only notable because they make the childish attempts to link UKIP to Hitler or the BNP look less nasty.
This is an amazingly exciting time in politics. Like them or loathe them UKIP have lifted some of the taboos, immigration, the EU, grammar schools, right of recall, etc they all seemed to have been buried in consensus politics until recently. Instead of taking it personally against their tribe, the opportunity to confront and win debates on the issues should be welcome to all the parties. Having UKIP or even the Greens should be a great chance to deal with the issues be it in parliament or on TV debates etc but instead they seem to resent their presence.
The needless insults and misrepresentation on here seems entirely consistent with a PM who thinks photoshopped pictures of his opposition in bed together is funny and a Labour Party that campaigns in Middleton on keeping the NHS from being privatised after they PFI'd the local hospitals!
The bar needs raising everywhere.
Scuffers said:
conversely, try that here and it takes at least 3-4 days to get an appointment, (and this is not an area of mass immigration)
there is not single cause to the issues of the NHS, GP contracts are some of it, as is PFI and mass immigration and NHS tourists, but the list is a lot longer than this.
Days waiting time here from phoning at 8AM when the surgery opens.there is not single cause to the issues of the NHS, GP contracts are some of it, as is PFI and mass immigration and NHS tourists, but the list is a lot longer than this.
FiF said:
zygalski said:
Greg66 said:
I think I can a common thread there. It's elusive, but I'm fairly sure it's there.
What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
UKIP are a party for proud British Nationalists. Obviously there are no similarities whatsoever to the British National Party & no former BNP supporter would ever dream of voting UKIP as the parties have absolutely nothing in common.What, exactly, are "British values" anyway? Is there is a list published anywhere?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/quiz/2014/may/...
Easy for anyone even paying half attention, not sure what the point is a part from trying to bait kippers and pander to the prejudices of Guardian readers.
Seriously though what is the point of trying to raise the bar on this thread when continual crap like that is posted.
Fail.
To some, it's an expression that might mean honesty, decency, politeness, bravery, hard work, stoicism, unflappability, afternoon tea, queuing, The Times and cricket.
To others, it means arrogance, colonialism, aloofness, aristocracy, a strictly enforced class system, no social mobility, shell suits, tabloid red tops and football hooligans.
It's a deliberately vague label, intended, I think, to convey "we're like you" (no matter what you are like).
Does anyone seriously believe that any of the major parties rank British interests behind foreign interests? Plainly not. "Interests" - commercial interests - seems to be a great deal more important. "Values", as I see it, is a catchier soundbite and a good recruiting tool, but ultimately rather meaningless.
A question to UKIP followers/ anti-Europe people.
Given that UKIP have no real policies and Im sure everyone would agree would be a disaster in government, your vote would be an anti-Europe vote and nothing more.
If there was a referendum tomorrow and we voted to stay in Europe, would you still follow UKIP, and if so-why?
Given that UKIP have no real policies and Im sure everyone would agree would be a disaster in government, your vote would be an anti-Europe vote and nothing more.
If there was a referendum tomorrow and we voted to stay in Europe, would you still follow UKIP, and if so-why?
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