UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
jogon said:
Have benefits been banned for these immigrants? News to me.
No, but I asked, since it appears that they could be under EU law, would that satisfy the Kippers. I bet it would make the vote in a referendum shift somewhatjogon said:
What about the political correctness or do you approve of what is going on in Rotherham and our schools in Birmingham and Tower Hamlets.
Is "what is going on" already illegal under UK law? YesSo what would UKIP change?
NicD. If you thought that was witless rambling and you can't see what the 3 separate issues and questions are in my post; then you need to go back to school. My daughter is interpreting harder texts than that. And she is still at prep school.
Apologies just read your pathetic response.
The crimes committed have been illegal for some time it was the labour mp, labour led council and the common purpose social service puppets like Joyce Thacker that let this horrific abuse carry on regardless. The law has always been in place but you need honorable folk to enforce it not your Marxist scum chasing the Muslim vote.
The crimes committed have been illegal for some time it was the labour mp, labour led council and the common purpose social service puppets like Joyce Thacker that let this horrific abuse carry on regardless. The law has always been in place but you need honorable folk to enforce it not your Marxist scum chasing the Muslim vote.
jogon said:
Apologies just read your pathetic response.
The crimes committed have been illegal for some time it was the labour mp, labour led council and the common purpose social service puppets like Joyce Thacker that let this horrific abuse carry on regardless. The law has always been in place but you need honorable folk to enforce it not your Marxist scum chasing the Muslim vote.
I quite agree the law should be enforced. But I still ask, what will UKIP do differently from the crrent coalition on this issue if they were by some miracle to get into govt?The crimes committed have been illegal for some time it was the labour mp, labour led council and the common purpose social service puppets like Joyce Thacker that let this horrific abuse carry on regardless. The law has always been in place but you need honorable folk to enforce it not your Marxist scum chasing the Muslim vote.
Legislate that people should follow the law?
Do I agree that labour council acted incorrecty? Yes, do I understand what UKIP would do to stop it? No
That is the trouble with it as a manifesto promise. Sounds great but there is nothing as to how it will be achieved.
So Fif, as you are so keen to emphasis that you are even handed. What say you after I have raised serious points, which no-one has yet answered fully, and in the last page or so alone have been called:
moronic
witless
rambling
pathetic
and various other such insults. Surely you do not condone such insulting terms used in a serious discussion? If anti-kippers did that it would be termed trolling would it not?
I did of course report a similar set of insults via the "report" button in accordance with forum rules. But never got a response. So this time I will ask publicly
moronic
witless
rambling
pathetic
and various other such insults. Surely you do not condone such insulting terms used in a serious discussion? If anti-kippers did that it would be termed trolling would it not?
I did of course report a similar set of insults via the "report" button in accordance with forum rules. But never got a response. So this time I will ask publicly
Edited by JustAnotherLogin on Sunday 19th October 23:35
JustAnotherLogin said:
I quite agree the law should be enforced. But I still ask, what will UKIP do differently from the crrent coalition on this issue if they were by some miracle to get into govt?
Legislate that people should follow the law?
Do I agree that labour council acted incorrecty? Yes, do I understand what UKIP would do to stop it? No
That is the trouble with it as a manifesto promise. Sounds great but there is nothing as to how it will be achieved.
What they will do is the great unknown but we have experienced Labour who exacerbated the problem and have now had 5 years of LibCon and yet nothing has changed it has in fact got worse. Legislate that people should follow the law?
Do I agree that labour council acted incorrecty? Yes, do I understand what UKIP would do to stop it? No
That is the trouble with it as a manifesto promise. Sounds great but there is nothing as to how it will be achieved.
How can UKIP possibly do any worse?!
They are only party offering policies with real conviction rather than trying to make the most of a s
tty situation. 24% with 6 months to go, another by election in hand and all to play for.
Edited by jogon on Sunday 19th October 23:50
JustAnotherLogin said:
Does that not satisfy you if we can restrict benefit payments etc? So the only ones coming are contributing to the economy not draining it? Seems to be in our interest.
While we were talking on thoughts, no Kipper has decided to say what the UKIP manifesto means by "no to political correctness". Can it just another "common sense" soundbite that actually has nothing behind it can it?
And no comments on my suggestions that the heirs to squadron 303; or Jerzy Rozycki, Henryk Zygalski and Marian Rejewski deserve the same respect that some of you believe the rest of Europe owes us for saving them?
Why not answer the serious questions and points before you spend so much time accusing anyone not worshipping at the high altal of Farage of trolling
If you want serious responses it might be worth making the points less emotively. While we were talking on thoughts, no Kipper has decided to say what the UKIP manifesto means by "no to political correctness". Can it just another "common sense" soundbite that actually has nothing behind it can it?
And no comments on my suggestions that the heirs to squadron 303; or Jerzy Rozycki, Henryk Zygalski and Marian Rejewski deserve the same respect that some of you believe the rest of Europe owes us for saving them?
Why not answer the serious questions and points before you spend so much time accusing anyone not worshipping at the high altal of Farage of trolling
The first point is addressed by the fact UKIP are not anti immigration. They want more control, and the ability to put UK interests above those of the EU.
The second point about political correctness is I think a fair point. I can't define it exactly, I know what it means to me , but its too vague and not the kind of thing I want to see on a manifesto. I didn't even read it originally though because the 'kipper' reference is a bit of a turn off for me, like hearing people refer to the conservatives as toffs or Labour as liebore.
The third point is nonsense. Where on this thread has anyone belittled or disrespected what the overseas pilots serving in the RAF during the war contributed to our countries defence and the eventual liberation of their countries. I apologise for making what you found an obscure reference with this:
brenflys777 said:
JustAnotherLogin said:
anyone not worshipping at the high altal of Farage of trolling
"Repeat please, repeat please!" Dacka dacka.steveT350C said:
While we wait, interview with UKIP's first MP in the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/19/uk...
interesting article.http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/19/uk...
As we head off to the cafe, he stops briefly for another impromptu lecture when he sees signs for a lobbying meeting. He peers at the names disapprovingly. “Who d’you reckon funds them? That’s the key to transparency. I was on the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme and got thrown off it for asking questions about funding and corporate governance.” He buzzes with manic energy.
What does he mean? “They want to hold office, but they don’t know what to do with it. They watch The West Wing. They think it’s all about giving speeches, positioning, going to Washington. They’re not in it for change, they’re in it to hold office.”
He throws a fact at me to prove his point. “Seven out of 10 seats are safe seats so career politicians get parachuted into safe seats and they only answer to career politicians. They’re out of touch. You get MPs who will honestly tell you they’ve never voted against their party on a three-line whip.” He looks appalled. “How can you possibly do that?”
Does the Tory party need a new leader? “It needs a lot more than a new leader.” He believes the Tories have become outmoded because they still act as if there has been no digital revolution; as if you can only communicate top-down via mass media. “The internet turns those assumptions on their head. You can re-personalise politics. The moment I got a blog and a Twitter account I started thinking I can communicate directly with people. I don’t need to be a pale imitation of Harry Enfield’s Tory Boy.”
wc98 said:
interesting article.
As we head off to the cafe, he stops briefly for another impromptu lecture when he sees signs for a lobbying meeting. He peers at the names disapprovingly. “Who d’you reckon funds them? That’s the key to transparency. I was on the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme and got thrown off it for asking questions about funding and corporate governance.” He buzzes with manic energy.
What does he mean? “They want to hold office, but they don’t know what to do with it. They watch The West Wing. They think it’s all about giving speeches, positioning, going to Washington. They’re not in it for change, they’re in it to hold office.”
He throws a fact at me to prove his point. “Seven out of 10 seats are safe seats so career politicians get parachuted into safe seats and they only answer to career politicians. They’re out of touch. You get MPs who will honestly tell you they’ve never voted against their party on a three-line whip.” He looks appalled. “How can you possibly do that?”
Does the Tory party need a new leader? “It needs a lot more than a new leader.” He believes the Tories have become outmoded because they still act as if there has been no digital revolution; as if you can only communicate top-down via mass media. “The internet turns those assumptions on their head. You can re-personalise politics. The moment I got a blog and a Twitter account I started thinking I can communicate directly with people. I don’t need to be a pale imitation of Harry Enfield’s Tory Boy.”
The most telling paragraph is this.As we head off to the cafe, he stops briefly for another impromptu lecture when he sees signs for a lobbying meeting. He peers at the names disapprovingly. “Who d’you reckon funds them? That’s the key to transparency. I was on the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme and got thrown off it for asking questions about funding and corporate governance.” He buzzes with manic energy.
What does he mean? “They want to hold office, but they don’t know what to do with it. They watch The West Wing. They think it’s all about giving speeches, positioning, going to Washington. They’re not in it for change, they’re in it to hold office.”
He throws a fact at me to prove his point. “Seven out of 10 seats are safe seats so career politicians get parachuted into safe seats and they only answer to career politicians. They’re out of touch. You get MPs who will honestly tell you they’ve never voted against their party on a three-line whip.” He looks appalled. “How can you possibly do that?”
Does the Tory party need a new leader? “It needs a lot more than a new leader.” He believes the Tories have become outmoded because they still act as if there has been no digital revolution; as if you can only communicate top-down via mass media. “The internet turns those assumptions on their head. You can re-personalise politics. The moment I got a blog and a Twitter account I started thinking I can communicate directly with people. I don’t need to be a pale imitation of Harry Enfield’s Tory Boy.”
"Carswell’s defection is still something of a mystery. He recently said the only way to guarantee a referendum on Europe is to ensure the Conservatives win the next election. So why walk now? “Because Cameron’s not serious. It’s a smoke-and-mirrors referendum. His advisers told me the plan; it’s to work out from focus groups and pollsters what it would take to get the soft ‘outers’ and the undecideds to stay in, to offer them that, and once that hurdle is cleared to stick with the status quo.”"
Northern Munkee said:
The most telling paragraph is this.
"Carswell’s defection is still something of a mystery. He recently said the only way to guarantee a referendum on Europe is to ensure the Conservatives win the next election. So why walk now? “Because Cameron’s not serious. It’s a smoke-and-mirrors referendum. His advisers told me the plan; it’s to work out from focus groups and pollsters what it would take to get the soft ‘outers’ and the undecideds to stay in, to offer them that, and once that hurdle is cleared to stick with the status quo.”"
But, but..... Dave promised us a referendum."Carswell’s defection is still something of a mystery. He recently said the only way to guarantee a referendum on Europe is to ensure the Conservatives win the next election. So why walk now? “Because Cameron’s not serious. It’s a smoke-and-mirrors referendum. His advisers told me the plan; it’s to work out from focus groups and pollsters what it would take to get the soft ‘outers’ and the undecideds to stay in, to offer them that, and once that hurdle is cleared to stick with the status quo.”"
JustAnotherLogin said:
So Fif, as you are so keen to emphasis that you are even handed. What say you after I have raised serious points, which no-one has yet answered fully, and in the last page or so alone have been called:
moronic
witless
rambling
pathetic
and various other such insults. Surely you do not condone such insulting terms used in a serious discussion? If anti-kippers did that it would be termed trolling would it not?
I did of course report a similar set of insults via the "report" button in accordance with forum rules. But never got a response. So this time I will ask publicly
Well of course it's not acceptable. Not sure why you are asking me about moderator response or lack of. moronic
witless
rambling
pathetic
and various other such insults. Surely you do not condone such insulting terms used in a serious discussion? If anti-kippers did that it would be termed trolling would it not?
I did of course report a similar set of insults via the "report" button in accordance with forum rules. But never got a response. So this time I will ask publicly
Edited by JustAnotherLogin on Sunday 19th October 23:35
If you look back not happy with either side down in the gutter and have said so.
Over the threads most of the trolling, deliberate baiting and unpleasant comments have been from anti kippers though. But there have been bans on both sides apparently.
zygalski said:
powerstroke said:
zygalski said:
Good evening, kippers! 
Which continent are we towing the UK 21 miles from the coast of today?
Good evening my jockanese lefty friend how nice of you to drop in Which continent are we towing the UK 21 miles from the coast of today?
I bought the GTE from a guy in Oban & drove it 500+ miles home in about 8.5 hours with a stop for dinner included.
don4l said:
Mrr T said:
don4l said:
Mrr T said:
My comment may not have been as clear as it should.
You can have a trade agreement with the EU and be a member of WTO. However, you can not offer the EU MFN status so the same terms must apply to all other WTO members.
So say we want a trade treaty with the EU which covers financial services. This would be esential because of the size of our financial services industry. If we want the access to the EU they will want to the same to the UK market.
In that case we would have to grant free access to the UK financial services markets to all WTO members. This is not likely to be what we want.
Ahhh, I hadn't realised that WHO membership meant automatic MFN status. I should have realised it because I have pointed out several times that WTO membership brings the same trade benefits as EU membership.You can have a trade agreement with the EU and be a member of WTO. However, you can not offer the EU MFN status so the same terms must apply to all other WTO members.
So say we want a trade treaty with the EU which covers financial services. This would be esential because of the size of our financial services industry. If we want the access to the EU they will want to the same to the UK market.
In that case we would have to grant free access to the UK financial services markets to all WTO members. This is not likely to be what we want.
I have pointed out several times that doing business with Taiwan, or the USA is just as easy as doing business with France or Poland. All we need to do is join the WTO. There is no real need to negotiate with the EU, as they are already WTO members. Most of the globe is an effective "free trade" area, and has been for many years.
If we join the WTO, then the EU have to give us the same trading rights as they give Switzerland. That is North's point, which you seem to support.
So tell me why I am wrong.
Please note that I am being polite to everyone today. It's a new policy that I am trying out. So far, it doesn't seem to be a great success.
Could I have a polite response, please?.... Pretty please?
I know there points are complex but please can you read Dr North's post again.
Focus on the difference between a free trade AGREEMENT and a free trade AREA.
The EU does not have a Free Trade Agreement with Switzerland, the EU and Switzerland have bilateral treaties whereby Switzerland joins the EU free trade AREA,
If as the UKIP policy suggests the EU and UK agree a free trade agreement then both the EU and the UK have to offer the same terms to every other WTO member.
This makes negation of a free trade agreement very complex since any concessions apply to all WTO members.
The other option is to agree a free trade area with the EU. The problem for UKIP in this is the EU is likely to insist on including free movement of labour in such an agreement.
I know this is complex but if UKIP really want to leave the EU then they should at least have some idea about how trade treaties work.
Guam said:
I am beginning to wonder what the point of this thread is, all we now see is an attrition loop of the same points that have been covered off again and again and again over the years, plus the usual battery of insults from all sides.
I spent the weekend watching the thread but could not motivate myself to participate in more of the same.
I doubt I am alone. come on guys get a grip and raise the bar, one can be abrasive without being insulting and forceful without getting in the gutter.
Indeed this sums it up and applicable to both sides. I spent the weekend watching the thread but could not motivate myself to participate in more of the same.
I doubt I am alone. come on guys get a grip and raise the bar, one can be abrasive without being insulting and forceful without getting in the gutter.
jogon said:
you moron..
Scuffers said:
All i get is the sudo intellectual babble of an internet narcissist.
brenflys777 said:
"Repeat please, repeat please!" Dacka dacka.
NicD said:
All i can see is some aimless and witless rambling. No response required.
Do any of you wonder why it is that most sensible non UKIP supporting people have stopped posting on this thread, when they get a variety of responses such as these? I'm not Guam's greatest fan, and I'm pretty sure he feels the same way about me, but on this we can stand shoulder to shoulder. Read what he says and take note.
Guam said:
I am beginning to wonder what the point of this thread is, all we now see is an attrition loop of the same points that have been covered off again and again and again over the years, plus the usual battery of insults from all sides.
I spent the weekend watching the thread but could not motivate myself to participate in more of the same.
I doubt I am alone. Come on guys get a grip and raise the bar, one can be abrasive without being insulting and forceful without getting in the gutter.
I spent the weekend watching the thread but could not motivate myself to participate in more of the same.
I doubt I am alone. Come on guys get a grip and raise the bar, one can be abrasive without being insulting and forceful without getting in the gutter.
steveT350C said:
While we wait, interview with UKIP's first MP in the Guardian.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/19/uk...
He comes across well in that. Some of his views I'm completely in agreement with, others I can't agree with but he does seem to have a strong sense of personal integrity. From the interview it struck me that he's a UKIP MP as a protest over the state of the Tories rather than being fully signed-up to their full manifesto. Almost as if UKIP were the least-worst option.http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/19/uk...
IainT said:
Almost as if UKIP were the least-worst option.
That's exactly how I see it - the least worst option. Doesn't mean I trust them any less, though....(For the record, I do think that Labour is the worst, worst option, as they will bleed the UK dry at a faster rate than even Cameron's version of the Tories)
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