UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
BlackLabel said:
steveT350C said:
The latest hard hitting mobile billboard
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
Well that's quite bold. It's already causing a lot of controversy on social media (lots of faux outrage) and will, I assume, soon make the mainstream news which is exactly what UKIP would want.
BlackLabel said:
steveT350C said:
The latest hard hitting mobile billboard
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
Well that's quite bold. It's already causing a lot of controversy on social media (lots of faux outrage) and will, I assume, soon make the mainstream news which is exactly what UKIP would want.
AJS- said:
This seems to be the current line of attack against UKIP. Farage went to a private school then worked in a bank, therefore he's just as much of an establishment stooge as Cameron et al.
It's total nonsense. Thousands of people go to private school and thousands of people become brokers of one sort of another.
"The establishment" at least in my view of it - is a bit more subtle than that. It's cliques formed by personal and family relationships that run through media, politics...
Not forgetting Farage was a true blue Tory until he was 30. It's total nonsense. Thousands of people go to private school and thousands of people become brokers of one sort of another.
"The establishment" at least in my view of it - is a bit more subtle than that. It's cliques formed by personal and family relationships that run through media, politics...
Most of the UKIP current & former leadership were previously active in the Tory party eg Farage, Pearson, Titford, Knapman, Mackinlay. They didn't materialise out of nowhere. The same for the current executive committee - virtually all former Tories.
UKIPs only MP was a Conservative MP just a few weeks ago.
The party is bankrolled by large donations from people who formerly donated to the Tory party eg Arron Banks.
To say that UKIP have no establishment links (especially seeing as though almost all were Conservatives) beggars belief. Naive in the extreme. Is Farage imposing a total vow of silence on them all?
These are just establishment folk from the right wing of the Tory party jumping on what is a currently fashionable bandwagon. The networking continues, the basic beliefs are much the same as they ever were. The people are the same. The former Tories haven't suddenly morphed into saintly bastions of humanity & integrity. They still have their grubby little secrets. They'll still tell their same nasty lies. They are still imperfect just like the rest of us & just like the politicians of other parties.
They just changed the colour of their ties.
Greg66 said:
don4l said:
You are absolutely correct. The phenomenon even has a name - "cognitive bias".
Which begs the question - Why do you trust Cameron when he has told you so many lies? We have told you about these lies many times in this thread - and you just cannot see it. And yet you seem to know that people only see what they want to see.
Today's big deception was Cameron's assertion that he will not pay the £1.7Bn. As with everything that Cameron says, you need to study the small print very carefully indeed. He will either pay £1.6Bn by the first of December, or he will pay £1.7Bn on the second.
Which option do you think he will choose?
As a matter of interest, do you consider yourself susceptible to or largely able to overcome cognitive bias? Which begs the question - Why do you trust Cameron when he has told you so many lies? We have told you about these lies many times in this thread - and you just cannot see it. And yet you seem to know that people only see what they want to see.
Today's big deception was Cameron's assertion that he will not pay the £1.7Bn. As with everything that Cameron says, you need to study the small print very carefully indeed. He will either pay £1.6Bn by the first of December, or he will pay £1.7Bn on the second.
Which option do you think he will choose?
I wouldn't say that I am "largely" able to overcome it. I recognise the problem, and I do try to spot it when it happens.
Being right most of the time makes it harder to deal with.
Edited by don4l on Saturday 25th October 19:04
BlackLabel said:
steveT350C said:
The latest hard hitting mobile billboard
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
@Nigel_Farage: We mustn't forget the child victims in Rotherham and beyond. But we must remember who let them down... http://t.co/VzdS9PEZgJ
Well that's quite bold. It's already causing a lot of controversy on social media (lots of faux outrage) and will, I assume, soon make the mainstream news which is exactly what UKIP would want.
dandarez said:
Scuffers said:
How long before he jumps ship?
I think Hannan (who says he won't jump) is biding his time. The Tories would win the GE with him at the helm, but he must know he has little chance of becoming leader. He'll jump... just at the right time imo.He's a young man, highly intelligent and popular even with full on kippers, yet he also seems firmly embedded in the Conservative party. I suspect he is biding his time to get in to UK politics in a very big way. He's one of a very few Tories who really could broker an effective pact or even merger between the two parties at the right time.
Hannan on the UKIP poster. https://twitter.com/danhannanmep/status/5260629771...
zygalski said:
Not forgetting Farage was a true blue Tory until he was 30.
Most of the UKIP current & former leadership were previously active in the Tory party eg Farage, Pearson, Titford, Knapman, Mackinlay. They didn't materialise out of nowhere. The same for the current executive committee - virtually all former Tories.
UKIPs only MP was a Conservative MP just a few weeks ago.
The party is bankrolled by large donations from people who formerly donated to the Tory party eg Arron Banks.
To say that UKIP have no establishment links (especially seeing as though almost all were Conservatives) beggars belief. Naive in the extreme. Is Farage imposing a total vow of silence on them all?
These are just establishment folk from the right wing of the Tory party jumping on what is a currently fashionable bandwagon. The networking continues, the basic beliefs are much the same as they ever were. The people are the same. The former Tories haven't suddenly morphed into saintly bastions of humanity & integrity. They still have their grubby little secrets. They'll still tell their same nasty lies. They are still imperfect just like the rest of us & just like the politicians of other parties.
They just changed the colour of their ties.
All true. Animal Farm all over again. Most of the UKIP current & former leadership were previously active in the Tory party eg Farage, Pearson, Titford, Knapman, Mackinlay. They didn't materialise out of nowhere. The same for the current executive committee - virtually all former Tories.
UKIPs only MP was a Conservative MP just a few weeks ago.
The party is bankrolled by large donations from people who formerly donated to the Tory party eg Arron Banks.
To say that UKIP have no establishment links (especially seeing as though almost all were Conservatives) beggars belief. Naive in the extreme. Is Farage imposing a total vow of silence on them all?
These are just establishment folk from the right wing of the Tory party jumping on what is a currently fashionable bandwagon. The networking continues, the basic beliefs are much the same as they ever were. The people are the same. The former Tories haven't suddenly morphed into saintly bastions of humanity & integrity. They still have their grubby little secrets. They'll still tell their same nasty lies. They are still imperfect just like the rest of us & just like the politicians of other parties.
They just changed the colour of their ties.
Doesn't negate all value in a clear out though.
Esseesse said:
Hannan on the UKIP poster. https://twitter.com/danhannanmep/status/5260629771...
Quite slimy from Hannan IMO.This is interesting. There are two discussions developing.
1. focus on UKIP, are they are trying to score points over Labour?
2. Focus on the lack of media attention and complete apathy from Gov, including Labour, of actually wanting to get to the bottom of this horror that has occurred.
One has to ask oneself which is more important, 1 or 2.
Maybe needs a new thread...
Observer/Opinium poll shows 31% of voters would back Nigel Farage’s party if they believed it could win in their constituency
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/ne...
OMG.
Observer/Opinium poll shows 31% of voters would back Nigel Farage’s party if they believed it could win in their constituency
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/25/ne...
OMG.
Does not surprise me one iota. When I first voted UKIP nearly 5 years ago my feeling was simply we 'need a bloody change'. If that change is no different, then so be it.
In those intervening years the change has not happened in government, but outside of it you can see and hear it!
The change is coming. People who don't see it are in for a hell of a shock. Get out and speak to people and you will hear it, quietly and straight. We are sick to the teeth of the current status quo. Many won't tell you how angry they are, but you'll know.
They know.
The train is coming and you either get out of the way and do nothing or you board it!
It may, by the time of the GE look like a train on the Indian sub-continent! Government may soon be very, very different.
In those intervening years the change has not happened in government, but outside of it you can see and hear it!
The change is coming. People who don't see it are in for a hell of a shock. Get out and speak to people and you will hear it, quietly and straight. We are sick to the teeth of the current status quo. Many won't tell you how angry they are, but you'll know.
They know.
The train is coming and you either get out of the way and do nothing or you board it!
It may, by the time of the GE look like a train on the Indian sub-continent! Government may soon be very, very different.
However does this underpin the research which went into Revolt on the Right which estimated a national ceiling of 30% ish for UKIP.
Ukip still has problems with getting support from women, young voters and minorities. That appears to be consistent.
Can they make inroads nationally before 2015GE? Clearly in localised areas they can and smash through the 30-odd % barrier, but nationally probably not. For future national elections then very possibly.
Smell the fear in Millbank and Brewers Green.
Ukip still has problems with getting support from women, young voters and minorities. That appears to be consistent.
Can they make inroads nationally before 2015GE? Clearly in localised areas they can and smash through the 30-odd % barrier, but nationally probably not. For future national elections then very possibly.
Smell the fear in Millbank and Brewers Green.
johnxjsc1985 said:
My hope is that the UKIP vote will send the Labour party back to the left and the Conservatives to the right where they naturally belong. Then we might get back to conviction Politicians who actually stand for something.I won't hold my breath.
I agree completely.I think that Miliband's Labour party is where Michael Foot would have wanted it. The problem is that the Conservative party is where Tony Blair would have happy to lead it.
don4l said:
Greg66 said:
don4l said:
You are absolutely correct. The phenomenon even has a name - "cognitive bias".
Which begs the question - Why do you trust Cameron when he has told you so many lies? We have told you about these lies many times in this thread - and you just cannot see it. And yet you seem to know that people only see what they want to see.
Today's big deception was Cameron's assertion that he will not pay the £1.7Bn. As with everything that Cameron says, you need to study the small print very carefully indeed. He will either pay £1.6Bn by the first of December, or he will pay £1.7Bn on the second.
Which option do you think he will choose?
As a matter of interest, do you consider yourself susceptible to or largely able to overcome cognitive bias? Which begs the question - Why do you trust Cameron when he has told you so many lies? We have told you about these lies many times in this thread - and you just cannot see it. And yet you seem to know that people only see what they want to see.
Today's big deception was Cameron's assertion that he will not pay the £1.7Bn. As with everything that Cameron says, you need to study the small print very carefully indeed. He will either pay £1.6Bn by the first of December, or he will pay £1.7Bn on the second.
Which option do you think he will choose?
I wouldn't say that I am "largely" able to overcome it. I recognise the problem, and I do try to spot it when it happens.
Being right most of the time makes it harder to deal with.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th October 19:04
See, you say Cameron says he will not pay the £1.7Bn, and conclude from that that "He will either pay £1.6Bn by the first of December, or he will pay £1.7Bn on the second". Whereas, of course, there is a huge range of things he might do whilst remaining true to his word (ranging from paying nothing to paying a nominal sum over many years to the options you suggest). But you choose, consciously, it seems, to focus on the two courses of action which would make what he said truthful in only the most technical of senses.
Why is that?
You say its because he lies about everything, but it is obvious to anyone that your views are formed around an immovable preconception that he lies about everything; hence everything he says is construed (contorted really) by you into a gross untruth that fits into your preconception.
Cognitive bias at its very best.
(BTW, if you really are right most of the time your postings in this thread must be a small proportion of your views, thank goodness).
AJS- said:
zygalski said:
Not forgetting Farage was a true blue Tory until he was 30.
Most of the UKIP current & former leadership were previously active in the Tory party eg Farage, Pearson, Titford, Knapman, Mackinlay. They didn't materialise out of nowhere. The same for the current executive committee - virtually all former Tories.
UKIPs only MP was a Conservative MP just a few weeks ago.
The party is bankrolled by large donations from people who formerly donated to the Tory party eg Arron Banks.
To say that UKIP have no establishment links (especially seeing as though almost all were Conservatives) beggars belief. Naive in the extreme. Is Farage imposing a total vow of silence on them all?
These are just establishment folk from the right wing of the Tory party jumping on what is a currently fashionable bandwagon. The networking continues, the basic beliefs are much the same as they ever were. The people are the same. The former Tories haven't suddenly morphed into saintly bastions of humanity & integrity. They still have their grubby little secrets. They'll still tell their same nasty lies. They are still imperfect just like the rest of us & just like the politicians of other parties.
They just changed the colour of their ties.
All true. Animal Farm all over again. Most of the UKIP current & former leadership were previously active in the Tory party eg Farage, Pearson, Titford, Knapman, Mackinlay. They didn't materialise out of nowhere. The same for the current executive committee - virtually all former Tories.
UKIPs only MP was a Conservative MP just a few weeks ago.
The party is bankrolled by large donations from people who formerly donated to the Tory party eg Arron Banks.
To say that UKIP have no establishment links (especially seeing as though almost all were Conservatives) beggars belief. Naive in the extreme. Is Farage imposing a total vow of silence on them all?
These are just establishment folk from the right wing of the Tory party jumping on what is a currently fashionable bandwagon. The networking continues, the basic beliefs are much the same as they ever were. The people are the same. The former Tories haven't suddenly morphed into saintly bastions of humanity & integrity. They still have their grubby little secrets. They'll still tell their same nasty lies. They are still imperfect just like the rest of us & just like the politicians of other parties.
They just changed the colour of their ties.
Doesn't negate all value in a clear out though.
i hope that eventual change is for the better ,and i hope i live long enough to see it.
wc98 said:
agreed. anyone that truly believes ukip running the country is the end game will be sadly mistaken in the long run. for me,what is currently happening is just the beginning of a long process that will change the way politics works in the uk for good.
i hope that eventual change is for the better ,and i hope i live long enough to see it.
The political establishment and msm are currently in the opinion that all these closet racists, freaks and loons will all suddenly see supposed sense come May, they have had their fun during the Euro's and recent By-Elections, and will now all fall in to line for the 'real' election as has happened in previous years. i hope that eventual change is for the better ,and i hope i live long enough to see it.
Only problem is the public don't seem too onside this time around and why should they as UKIP is looking at its third successive major win on the trot.
The argument of vote ukip get labour is looking more pathetic by the day.
Greg66 said:
You say its because he lies about everything, but it is obvious to anyone that your views are formed around an immovable preconception that he lies about everything; hence everything he says is construed (contorted really) by you into a gross untruth that fits into your preconception.
Cognitive bias at its very best.
Most people would agree that politicians do not, in the main, tell the truth. Cognitive bias at its very best.
I had no statistic, so Googled and found this MORI poll from 15 February 2013 https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/re...
Just one in five (18%) Britons trust politicians to tell the truth compared to 21% trusting journalists and bankers and 24% who trust estate agents.
Leave aside that not telling the truth is not ipso facto, lying. The latter requires the intent to deceive, but with politicians, this is a reasonable assumption.
Greg,
are you a comedian or Russell Brands pen pal?
you say 'but it is obvious to anyone' htf do you know this?
you say 'Cognitive bias at its very best.' but the preceding 'proof' is anything but. You need to up your game, by using logic and presenting evidence, not wild speculation dressed up as 'it is obvious to anyone'
Greg66 said:
You say its because he lies about everything, but it is obvious to anyone that your views are formed around an immovable preconception that he lies about everything; hence everything he says is construed (contorted really) by you into a gross untruth that fits into your preconception.
Cognitive bias at its very best.
I don't think that he lies about everything.Cognitive bias at its very best.
He says whatever he thinks will serve him best.
If the truth will serve his interests best, why would he lie?
So, the question is - why would you believe that I think that he lies about everything?
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