UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[DJRC]

There are a lot of ppl who just regard the EU as outright bad and I find that disappointing. Socially the EU has been superb for Europe, the biggest game changer since the invention of the printing press. Politically and financially until the last decade it had a lot to be said for it. The trouble unfortunately can almost entirely be pinned on the Euro. Now whilst it can be said the EU does not = the Euro, it is also undoubtedly true the Euro is the symbol of a wider concept of the EU. In short it is/was a good idea that has over reached itself. I find this to be a great great shame for Europe. I fear we are at a point in the cycle where there must be destruction before there is renewed growth. Angie growing a set of balls might help that.

[wc98]

The Hypno-Toad said:

Slightly off topic but on my facebook feed something curious popped up last night.

I have an ex-workmate who has some errrr.... interesting political views and he has 'liked' an article about the 'bacon to mosque door' story. As it appears to have come from an extreme right wing site I didn't pay much attention to it.
Until I noticed it had 56,000 likes.

That seems like a lot of people swinging to a rather nasty viewpoint of life. What with this and the Britain First scumbags, is some of the country already beginning to bypass UKIP and swing even further to the right?

Not good.

looking at the numbers,it could well just be the parents of abused children in manchester ,which is possibly understandable.

[Benbay001]

DJRC said:

The trouble unfortunately can almost entirely be pinned on the Euro.

Not sure many will agree with that. I certainly dont.
The Euro cannot be blamed for a massive undemocratic beurocracy. It cannot be blamed for taxing carbon at every turn.

The Euro has failed for the same reason the EU will fail. Tieing together 28 countries with vastly different societies, historys, work ethics, debt levels, average wages, minimum wages and crime rates and expecting it to work is pure madness. And then expecting the richer and more stable counties to subsidise the poorer ones? No thank you.

[wc98]

jogon said:

Good article yesterday about them and worth looking at the UAF founding signatories list, Dave and all the other liberal stooges currently destroying our country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/andrew-gill...

lovely bunch of people .

from the article.

One reason why UAF will not campaign against Islamist extremists is that one of its own vice-chairmen, Azad Ali, is one. As well as his UAF role, which he took up last year, Mr Ali is community affairs coordinator of the Islamic Forum of Europe, a Muslim supremacist group dedicated to changing “the very infrastructure of society, its institutions, its culture, its political order and its creed from ignorance to Islam”.
Mr Ali has written on his blog of his “love” for Anwar al-Awlaki, the al-Qaeda cleric closely linked to many terrorist plots, including the September 11 attacks, and used to attend talks by Abu Qatada, the extremist cleric whom Britain is seeking to deport.
He has described al-Qaeda as a “myth” and denied that the Mumbai attacks were terrorism. On his blog, he also advocated the killing of British troops in Iraq. He sued a newspaper for reporting that he had said this, and lost.
Filmed by an undercover reporter for The Sunday Telegraph and Channel 4’s Dispatches, he said: “Democracy, if it means at the expense of not implementing the sharia, of course no one agrees with that.” Mr Bennett defended Mr Ali, saying: “He’s done valuable work for us. I’ve heard him speak on many occasions and he’s never said any of the things he’s been accused of.”
One of the alleged killers of Drummer Rigby, Michael Adebolajo, also spoke on the margins of a UAF rally in Harrow in 2009. Video footage shows him addressing a crowd at the event. Mr Bennett said that he was not on the platform, nor was he an official speaker.
There are effective ways to defeat the far Right — the group Searchlight has inflicted significant damage through voter-registration drives, door-to-door campaigning and precise, well-researched intelligence driving a dagger into its real weaknesses.
And there are ineffective ways. The racist Right thrives on two things: publicity and the politics of victimhood. The mob outrage practised by UAF gets the fascists more of both. As with the “anti-Islamophobia” monitoring group Tell Mama, which has lost its government funding after overhyping the nature of anti-Muslim hostility, there is a sense that the racists and their opponents need each other.
Mr Brett added: “It just antagonises the situation. The way to deal with this stuff is not to fight it aggressively. That’s exactly what they want you to do.”
Nobody has denied that there has been an increase in tensions since the murder of Drummer Rigby.
The danger is that by exaggerating it, and by the politics of confrontation, supposedly anti-racist groups fuel the very division, polarisation and tension they are supposed to counter.

[sjn2004]

Even the Guardian are cashing in on UKIP…

https://membership.theguardian.com/event/138450900...

guess it will be one big pity party.

[BGARK]

DJRC said:

There are a lot of ppl who just regard the EU as outright bad and I find that disappointing. Socially the EU has been superb for Europe

The EU is not a real thing, and the animal it has become is currently controlled by dictators.

Socially I have many a beer with my European colleagues. We also buy/sell things from each other, and guess what we do this without a politician in sight!

[smegmore]

mrpurple said:

nicked

Feel free

[Zod]

sjn2004 said:

Zod said:

brenflys777 said:

Zod said:

Scuffers said:

Zod said:

No, he didn't. He never had any intention of keeping his word.He never went to the Party and told them he was no longer seeking a seat. He behaved in the same way before he defected.

The way your going on, anybody would think you were married and he cheated on you......

He would be very wary about entering into any correspondence about his time here.

Lucky these lawyer types know better than to make unsubstantiated claims about someone... I don't know him or you but I can see actions. Reckless didn't have to go for a by election and give his voters the chance to endorse his decision. He says he's acted out of conviction and he's backed that claim up with the election.

Cameron has said he'll give us a referendum after a negotiation. He's had four years to start a negotiation - he can show us nothing. He says we'll get a referendum - again nothing accomplished in deed, just words.

Obviously, I cannot give details of his employment record.Suffice to say, he is an unpleasant character.

Zod, you know, your not really anonymous here. You make all these unsubstantiated claims and think you are hiding by not naming your company, it would take only a few minutes to track you down.

erm, I said as much myself a few posts ago.

[brenflys777]

This reinforces the point made by FIFs earlier post showing the number of council seats UKIP have taken and who from, it's not just the conservatives who are worried. Unfortunately for Labour it appears they share some characteristics with the conservatives, here the former Labour immigration minister attributes the common factor UKIP voters share as being a 'darkly pessimistic' view of themselves....

Same old story as the cons, it's not our fault or failure to change, it's these fruitcakes/racists and now pessimists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29838024

[FiF]

Benbay001 said:

DJRC said:

The trouble unfortunately can almost entirely be pinned on the Euro.

Not sure many will agree with that. I certainly dont.
The Euro cannot be blamed for a massive undemocratic beurocracy. It cannot be blamed for taxing carbon at every turn.

The Euro has failed for the same reason the EU will fail. Tieing together 28 countries with vastly different societies, historys, work ethics, debt levels, average wages, minimum wages and crime rates and expecting it to work is pure madness. And then expecting the richer and more stable counties to subsidise the poorer ones? No thank you.

The euro is but one element in the whole scenario.

If you examine the history then there has been a consistent pattern in dealing with issues. Unfortunately I don't have the time for a long post but essentially whenever the EU has come up against a problem the answer has always been greater integration. When that step has not proved to be the answer the solution is always more integration and round and round in the loop. The euro is but one bit of a particular loop.

Now to be fair some of the issues would be resolved in a one state with complete political and fiscal integration. However the elements are just too disparate for it to work in any sensible time frame.

[NicD]

brenflys777 said:

This reinforces the point made by FIFs earlier post showing the number of council seats UKIP have taken and who from, it's not just the conservatives who are worried. Unfortunately for Labour it appears they share some characteristics with the conservatives, here the former Labour immigration minister attributes the common factor UKIP voters share as being a 'darkly pessimistic' view of themselves....

Same old story as the cons, it's not our fault or failure to change, it's these fruitcakes/racists and now pessimists

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29838024

I admit, rather proclaim it, I have been turned from an optimist to a UKIP pessimist!

It is not terminal but due the number of 'others', not likely to be re-turned to optimism for some time

[FiF]

What this stuff from Byrne and others confirms to me is what a cynical bunch of vote grubbing oiks politicians are.

Clearly in order to get elected you have to get votes. That's fair enough.

But there can be a situation that cries out for attention and until it looks like it might affect their continuation to trough at the swill then they will not discuss it. But they soon start bandwagon climbing when it suits.

I would have respect for someone saying this is my position and let's have a proper debate to figure out the situation and why it's of concern.

But no, too often it's shut down with the usual cries of racist, xenophobe, it's too complicated for you to understand, consensus, matter is settled and all the other ruses to shut down debate.

All parties included in this pretty much.

[FiF]

What this stuff from Byrne and others confirms to me is what a cynical bunch of vote grubbing oiks politicians are.

Clearly in order to get elected you have to get votes. That's fair enough.

But there can be a situation that cries out for attention and until it looks like it might affect their continuation to trough at the swill then they will not discuss it. But they soon start bandwagon climbing when it suits.

I would have respect for someone saying this is my position and let's have a proper debate to figure out the situation and why it's of concern.

But no, too often it's shut down with the usual cries of racist, xenophobe, it's too complicated for you to understand, consensus, matter is settled and all the other ruses to shut down debate.

All parties included in this pretty much.

[Mrr T]

brenflys777 said:

Cameron has said he'll give us a referendum after a negotiation. He's had four years to start a negotiation - he can show us nothing. He says we'll get a referendum - again nothing accomplished in deed, just words.

Why do idiots keep posting things like this????

Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.

THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.

THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.

[jogon]

Mrr T said:

Why do idiots keep posting things like this????

Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.

THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.

THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.

Is that the same excuse for why he failed to reduce immigration to tens of thousands as well. We have heard it all before and bored of the lies.

The Tories look even less likely to win a majority this time around so what' makes you believe anything they scribble down in their manifesto.

Edited by jogon on Friday 31st October 08:34

[brenflys777]

Mrr T said:

brenflys777 said:

Cameron has said he'll give us a referendum after a negotiation. He's had four years to start a negotiation - he can show us nothing. He says we'll get a referendum - again nothing accomplished in deed, just words.

Why do idiots keep posting things like this????

Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.

THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.

THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.

Idiot? Nice.

No need for capitals or slow shouty keyboard mashing either.

Cameron hasn't even blamed his lack of progress with negotiations on the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems have also publicly said that the EU needs reform, Clegg even did so in his 'read the small print' debate with Farage.

If Cameron was serious about reform he would have something to show for it, a list of things he wants to achieve or a list of his absolute requirements. Cameron has had four years as PM and he has cooperated with ever closure EU union and he achieved no reform. Asking for another two years so that he can start negotiations relies on panicked attempts to suggest Labour would be even worse. It's sad and cynical IMO.

[Scuffers]

Mrr T said:

Why do idiots keep posting things like this????

Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.

THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.

THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.

lame excuse...

nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.

[jogon]

DJRC said:

There are a lot of ppl who just regard the EU as outright bad and I find that disappointing. Socially the EU has been superb for Europe, the biggest game changer since the invention of the printing press. Politically and financially until the last decade it had a lot to be said for it. The trouble unfortunately can almost entirely be pinned on the Euro. Now whilst it can be said the EU does not = the Euro, it is also undoubtedly true the Euro is the symbol of a wider concept of the EU. In short it is/was a good idea that has over reached itself. I find this to be a great great shame for Europe. I fear we are at a point in the cycle where there must be destruction before there is renewed growth. Angie growing a set of balls might help that.

Really? Bigger than the Internet and the social change that has brought about. Imo the EU is archaic and no loner required in this modern globally connected and trading world.

How come the rest of the globe are getting on just fine without such a collective political union, it seems only the EU are in a steady rate of decline with little hope of improvement on the horizon.

[Esseesse]

Scuffers said:

Mrr T said:

Why do idiots keep posting things like this????

Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.

THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.

THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.

lame excuse...

nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.

Indeed and if it was important to you and you operated on principles rather than your career then you'd dissolve parliament and campaign for re-election on on the back of what you believe. The fact that none of this sort of thing happens is just one factor that means that people do not trust his promises and will vote for UKIP instead.

[Mrr T]

jogon said:

Is that the same excuse for why he failed to reduce immigration to tens of thousands as well. We have heard it all before and bored of the lies.

The Tories look even less likely to win a majority this time around so what' makes you believe anything they scribble down in their manifesto.

Edited by jogon on Friday 31st October 08:34

I am not defending CMD on the immigration pledge. He was stupid to pledge something over which he had no control.

Indeed, I am not defending CMD at all I have little time for the man but the Tory party is more than one man.