UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
richie99 said:
But they haven't and they aren't. Look at the current batch of Commissioners. They couldn't give a s
t about European citizens, and they have been nowhere near a democratic election.
Generally speaking they often have been near a democratic election; it's losing one that tends to get them punted into office in the commission. Jobs for the boys and girls, a parasitocracy.t about European citizens, and they have been nowhere near a democratic election. Esseesse said:
Agree with the above. Surely the point of coalition is to secure a majority of like-minded enough people in parliament so that where there is agreement things can be voted for and passed. It absolutely does not mean that you have to give up working on things that you believe in outside of parliament, which could include working on what the options could (not) be with the EU. If he thought he could get a significant renegotiation he would be doing this already as by achieving that Cameron would massively aid the Torys 2015 GE bid.
The bit in bold for me is why I dis-trust any of our current lot. They aren't remotely like-minded, they hopped into coalition with LimDems, just to get their hands on power, likewsie for the LibDems. They are politically polar opposites of each other, yet they formed a coalition with each other.I have absolutely no faith in our current politicians, they're all sharks, it's time for a sea-change in politics in this country. They've become to complacent with the 2 1/2 party system. From next year, there'll be 4 strong parties, the least popular (by vote number) of which is likely to be the lib-dems, though they'll still get seats, due to the way we vote for our elected representatives.
Zod said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
Why do idiots keep posting things like this????
Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
lame excuse...Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
It doesn't matter though; you bunch of angry, disappointed men will complain whatever they do. If they hold a referendum and get the result you want, you will still complain that they should have done it in 2010.
FiF said:
Absolutely the above. Even the EU say they have received no communication from the UK government or Cameron as to what reforms are desired.
Regardless of what the LibDems say some approach could have been made. Even though they also say reform is needed. Without any indication of what reform these are simply empty bluster to shut down the debate or sound as if they appreciate the concerns and sort of agree.
It's as Guam summed it up yesterday. If as a floating voter two big issues are the lack of democracy and the direction taken by the EU, followed by a rejection of the AGW/MMCC malarkey just which party represents those views?
Either one votes on best fit to personal views/ or vote tribally / or not vote. There are no other options.
So you suggest CMD wanders up to the commission and says "Hey guys we want to make some changes". The commission then says "So you have a mandate for this approach, you have the power to negotiate on behalf of the UK government". Regardless of what the LibDems say some approach could have been made. Even though they also say reform is needed. Without any indication of what reform these are simply empty bluster to shut down the debate or sound as if they appreciate the concerns and sort of agree.
It's as Guam summed it up yesterday. If as a floating voter two big issues are the lack of democracy and the direction taken by the EU, followed by a rejection of the AGW/MMCC malarkey just which party represents those views?
Either one votes on best fit to personal views/ or vote tribally / or not vote. There are no other options.
Get real The only way there will be a negotiation is a government with a clear majority to negotiate and likely an agreed date for a referendum.
The only party who can realistically deliver that are the Conservatives.
It is your right to vote for who you like. However, I expect a UKIP vote may well lead to a Labour majority, which might even be a majority in England as well. In which case any plans to leave the UK are gone for at least another 10 years.
Esseesse said:
As pointed out many many times before, there have been many many instances where Camerons actions have in no way reflected what he says. Or he's resorted to a cop-out of an excuse. Or resorted to what amounts to bare-faced lies about what is achievable from within the EU. Or he's claimed success where there has been nothing of the sort (EU budget). I'd rather vote for the real thing.
I have no time for CMD but I still believe in the Conservative party.I hope you enjoy the next Labour government.
Please do not call a party which after 20 years of proposing we leave the EU but still has no viable plan on how to do it the "real thing".
Something from the media well worth watching for a change.
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/eastern-...
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/eastern-...
Mrr T said:
So you suggest CMD wanders up to the commission and says "Hey guys we want to make some changes". The commission then says "So you have a mandate for this approach, you have the power to negotiate on behalf of the UK government".
Get real The only way there will be a negotiation is a government with a clear majority to negotiate and likely an agreed date for a referendum.
The only party who can realistically deliver that are the Conservatives.
It is your right to vote for who you like. However, I expect a UKIP vote may well lead to a Labour majority, which might even be a majority in England as well. In which case any plans to leave the UK are gone for at least another 10 years.
Tell me how my vote for UKIP will lead to a labour government?Get real The only way there will be a negotiation is a government with a clear majority to negotiate and likely an agreed date for a referendum.
The only party who can realistically deliver that are the Conservatives.
It is your right to vote for who you like. However, I expect a UKIP vote may well lead to a Labour majority, which might even be a majority in England as well. In which case any plans to leave the UK are gone for at least another 10 years.
I am in a safe seat with the tory party a long long way behind
How will my vote for UKIP suddenly mean we will have a labour government
Give me one reason to vote tory
Mrr T said:
It is your right to vote for who you like. However, I expect a UKIP vote may well lead to a Labour majority, which might even be a majority in England as well. In which case any plans to leave the UK are gone for at least another 10 years.
You never know the Scots might just have a say in that.Einion Yrth said:
Zod said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
Why do idiots keep posting things like this????
Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
lame excuse...Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
It doesn't matter though; you bunch of angry, disappointed men will complain whatever they do. If they hold a referendum and get the result you want, you will still complain that they should have done it in 2010.
As for that three line whip, why, when the policy is to renegotiate and then hold a referendum on whether to stay in on renegotiated terms or leave, would the Tories have risked that bill going through?
Edited by Zod on Friday 31st October 12:50
Zod said:
Wow, you were quick! I deleted the post when I saw the MrrT had already raised Bob Neill's bill.
As for that three line whip, why, when the policy is to renegotiate and then hold a referendum on whether to stay in on renegotiated terms or leave, would the Tories have risked that bill going through?
So where are these renegotiation's?As for that three line whip, why, when the policy is to renegotiate and then hold a referendum on whether to stay in on renegotiated terms or leave, would the Tories have risked that bill going through?
Edited by Zod on Friday 31st October 12:50
Has Cameron been too busy
Does he not know what he wants as i haven't heard a squeak about what we are going to ask for
What are we asking for?
A new coffee machine and a chair that doesn't squeak
McWigglebum4th said:
Tell me how my vote for UKIP will lead to a labour government?
I am in a safe seat with the tory party a long long way behind
How will my vote for UKIP suddenly mean we will have a labour government
Give me one reason to vote tory
I like you are in a seat where my vote matters very little. So I agree you vote like mine matters little.I am in a safe seat with the tory party a long long way behind
How will my vote for UKIP suddenly mean we will have a labour government
Give me one reason to vote tory
However, in marginal constituencies 10-12% vote for UKIP with 80-90% of that coming from Tory voters will result in a Labour government.
Its a problem with the FPP system. I might have been in favour of a proportional system but the LD proposal at the referendum was so distorted to serve only the LD I had to vote against.
McWigglebum4th said:
Zod said:
Wow, you were quick! I deleted the post when I saw the MrrT had already raised Bob Neill's bill.
As for that three line whip, why, when the policy is to renegotiate and then hold a referendum on whether to stay in on renegotiated terms or leave, would the Tories have risked that bill going through?
So where are these renegotiation's?As for that three line whip, why, when the policy is to renegotiate and then hold a referendum on whether to stay in on renegotiated terms or leave, would the Tories have risked that bill going through?
Edited by Zod on Friday 31st October 12:50
Has Cameron been too busy
Does he not know what he wants as i haven't heard a squeak about what we are going to ask for
What are we asking for?
A new coffee machine and a chair that doesn't squeak
Negotiations haven't started yet. The LibDems don't want them. They are part of the government. The renegotiation begins if a Conservative majority government is elected.
jogon said:
So the answer to the turmoil in the Middle East, Financial crisis and mass unemployment is we should all pull down our borders and become one big jolly state is it? Your living on a different planet.
And when was the European Commission ever democratically elected its full of failed politicians from the member states.
You're putting words in my mouth.. I just don't think the mentality of Us vs. Them that nationalism encourages is useful, and it blocks progress in just about every measure of human existence.And when was the European Commission ever democratically elected its full of failed politicians from the member states.
My second part was also hypothetical.. if MEP's aren't democratically elected in some states, then why aren't we campaigning for that rather than a full-on exit?
Einion Yrth said:
Zod said:
Scuffers said:
Mrr T said:
Why do idiots keep posting things like this????
Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
lame excuse...Let me type this slowly as I know its hard.
THE TORIES DID NOT WIN A MAJORITY.
THEY ARE IN A COALITION WITH THE LD WHO HAVE NOT AGREED TO ANY EU RENEGOIATIONS.
nothing stopping them introducing legislation without the libs, like a private members bill etc.
It doesn't matter though; you bunch of angry, disappointed men will complain whatever they do. If they hold a referendum and get the result you want, you will still complain that they should have done it in 2010.
However, the Conservative party is now in my view, and others, more EU sceptic than ever before.
Mrr T said:
Did I say I trusted CMD. I am sure he does not want an EU referendum, and any referendum will canvas for an in vote.
However, the Conservative party is now in my view, and others, more EU sceptic than ever before.
Why are they then still parachuting liberal nut jobs like Alan Mak and Mark Warman into safe tory seats. However, the Conservative party is now in my view, and others, more EU sceptic than ever before.
They have taken nothing on board.
CamMoreRon said:
You're putting words in my mouth.. I just don't think the mentality of Us vs. Them that nationalism encourages is useful, and it blocks progress in just about every measure of human existence.
My second part was also hypothetical.. if MEP's aren't democratically elected in some states, then why aren't we campaigning for that rather than a full-on exit?
As Benn eloquently said in that speech earlier it is not about nationalism but democracy. My second part was also hypothetical.. if MEP's aren't democratically elected in some states, then why aren't we campaigning for that rather than a full-on exit?
I do not feel the European Commission can possibly act in the best interest of all the member states it is impossible in fact quite the opposite is now happening across the continent.
Labour hold S. Yorshire police commissioner position.
Which is odd considering this... or not
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/75-of-crime-in...
Which is odd considering this... or not
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/75-of-crime-in...
Edited by steveT350C on Friday 31st October 13:35
jogon said:
As Benn eloquently said in that speech earlier it is not about nationalism but democracy.
I do not feel the European Commission can possibly act in the best interest of all the member states it is impossible in fact quite the opposite is now happening across the continent.
In the context of UKIP I find that concept slightly hard to believe.. the calls to return to "British values" and enhancement / glorification of the armed forces are some pretty clear indicators of a nationalistic undertone. I do not feel the European Commission can possibly act in the best interest of all the member states it is impossible in fact quite the opposite is now happening across the continent.
I think it's highly possible the Commission can do that, given that the representatives at each level have the right motives. If that isn't the case, then that's the problem that needs to be addressed; dismantling a theoretically beneficial structure because some elements of it aren't currently satisfied is a bit of a short-sighted move.
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