UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[FiF]

Regardless of the handbags at twenty paces over whether the Express is an authoritative source or not, tomorrows front page looks as if is claims that UKIP are in second place in a new poll. No idea as to pollster or any other details.

H/T Mike Smithson

Must be said I do have a somewhat jaundiced view of Express polls.





Edited to add Mike just speculated it's perhaps based on a Sun readers poll, so twaddle, as expected. As relevant as the OMG Arctic weather in worst winter for centuries headlines they produce every few weeks.

Edited by FiF on Sunday 23 November 23:10

[XJ Flyer]

s2art said:

XJ Flyer said:

Esseesse said:

XJ Flyer said:

Having said that Farage caving in on the immigration issue probably won't help in retaining that vote.

Farage hasn't caved in anything, what he stated was what has been UKIP's position for as long as I can remember. You just got excited when Reckless minced his words a bit.

I must had read this mistruth posted by you 10+ times in this thread. It's really boring.

There's no way that any policy of leaving the EU partly to sort out the issue of east European immigration,can be remotely believable if that immigration policy isn't going o be applied retrospectively.

As it stands the idea that all those who arrive before we leave the EU can all keep their work permit/right to residence status will just increase the problem massively.By those moving here to beat any possible deadline while also making no difference to the issue as it stands.

You are deluded. If there is a Brexit then all non-Brit workers will be given a work permit, and then would be allowed to apply for residency.

Just so long as all those who are voting for a supposed policy of ending the issue of east european cheap labour immigration know that then I await to see UKIP's fortunes with interest.But don't expect my vote for one.

[s2art]

XJ Flyer said:

s2art said:

XJ Flyer said:

Esseesse said:

XJ Flyer said:

Having said that Farage caving in on the immigration issue probably won't help in retaining that vote.

Farage hasn't caved in anything, what he stated was what has been UKIP's position for as long as I can remember. You just got excited when Reckless minced his words a bit.

I must had read this mistruth posted by you 10+ times in this thread. It's really boring.

There's no way that any policy of leaving the EU partly to sort out the issue of east European immigration,can be remotely believable if that immigration policy isn't going o be applied retrospectively.

As it stands the idea that all those who arrive before we leave the EU can all keep their work permit/right to residence status will just increase the problem massively.By those moving here to beat any possible deadline while also making no difference to the issue as it stands.

You are deluded. If there is a Brexit then all non-Brit workers will be given a work permit, and then would be allowed to apply for residency.

Just so long as all those who are voting for a supposed policy of ending the issue of east european cheap labour immigration know that then I await to see UKIP's fortunes with interest.But don't expect my vote for one.

There wouldnt be any more East European immigration unless there was a need for it. Thats what work permits are for.

[dandarez]

FiF said:

Regardless of the handbags at twenty paces over whether the Express is an authoritative source or not, tomorrows front page looks as if is claims that UKIP are in second place in a new poll. No idea as to pollster or any other details.

H/T Mike Smithson

Must be said I do have a somewhat jaundiced view of Express polls.




Edited to add Mike just speculated it's perhaps based on a Sun readers poll, so twaddle, as expected. As relevant as the OMG Arctic weather in worst winter for centuries headlines they produce every few weeks.

The actual poll taken was from a 1,000 people and took place in the historically labour stronghold of Newcastle.

UKIP’s N.E. MEP Jonathan Arnott said the 1,000-person poll might even be playing down his party’s chances of victory.

He said:
“Considering this poll was just conducted in Newcastle, it does not reflect UKIP’s strength across the whole of the North East.
For example, at the European elections in May, UKIP’s vote share was 6% higher across the region than in Newcastle alone.”

This country is going to get one hell of a wake-up call.

The Kipper train gets more unstoppable day by day.

[XJ Flyer]

s2art said:

XJ Flyer said:

s2art said:

You are deluded. If there is a Brexit then all non-Brit workers will be given a work permit, and then would be allowed to apply for residency.

Just so long as all those who are voting for a supposed policy of ending the issue of east european cheap labour immigration know that then I await to see UKIP's fortunes with interest.But don't expect my vote for one.

There wouldnt be any more East European immigration unless there was a need for it. Thats what work permits are for.

In reality that says if we leave the EU we'll 'then' change from the present open door immigration policy to one of work permits for all 'new entrants' from 'that point'.However all those who've already arrived,and who are yet to arrive,under the present open door policy,up to 'that point' can stay and will automatically keep their work permit and resident rights status just as if we hadn't left the EU'.

As I said good luck with selling that in the areas where they 'thought' that vote UKIP meant get a UKIP immigration policy.Especially when they see that the reality of that policy will be a massive influx of yet more entrants all getting in on a guaranteed ticket that they can stay just so long as they arrive before we leave the EU.

[Axionknight]

FiF said:

Regardless of the handbags at twenty paces over whether the Express is an authoritative source or not, tomorrows front page looks as if is claims that UKIP are in second place in a new poll. No idea as to pollster or any other details.

H/T Mike Smithson

Must be said I do have a somewhat jaundiced view of Express polls.





Edited to add Mike just speculated it's perhaps based on a Sun readers poll, so twaddle, as expected. As relevant as the OMG Arctic weather in worst winter for centuries headlines they produce every few weeks.

Edited by FiF on Sunday 23 November 23:10

Never mind all that - gimme dem free flowers!

[NoNeed]

dandarez said:

The Kipper train gets more unstoppable day by day.

Yes it does. I remember getting laughed at by suggesting UKIP could get two seats in the election then again for suggesting a tory deal could deliver 10 seats. Now UKIP themselves are predicting 40 seats.


This is from the most tolerant society on the planet.



The other parties need to wake to fast to the fact that it's things people are being denied that is the issue like housing a decent work contract with security. Of course the public services are struggling too and in these difficult times pointing the finger at immigrants is the easy option rather than tackle the issues.

[NicD]

Greg66 said:

Once more: do you consider the Express an authoritative news source? A simple yes no will suffice.

Why 'once more'?

YOU are the one who has to deliver after your big mouth.

[NicD]

FiF said:

Regardless of the handbags at twenty paces over whether the Express is an authoritative source or not, tomorrows front page looks as if is claims that UKIP are in second place in a new poll. No idea as to pollster or any other details.

H/T Mike Smithson

Must be said I do have a somewhat jaundiced view of Express polls.





Edited to add Mike just speculated it's perhaps based on a Sun readers poll, so twaddle, as expected. As relevant as the OMG Arctic weather in worst winter for centuries headlines they produce every few weeks.

If you read the link, it is based on YouGov, as stated many hours ago, not that means anything much.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/539175/Boost-Fara...

Edited by FiF on Sunday 23 November 23:10

[anonymous-user]

NicD said:

Why 'once more'?

YOU are the one who has to deliver after your big mouth.

Third time's a charm, even with the evasive: do you consider the Express an authoritative news source? A simple yes no will suffice.

[FiF]

Guam said:

Greg66 said:

Third time's a charm, even with the evasive: do you consider the Express an authoritative news source? A simple yes no will suffice.

Given there is no media source without some kind of agenda and they all twist the news to suit their "readership" then there can be effectively no such thing.

"Gotcha" question is too obvious!

Quite, on the issue of the Express "poll" according Mike Smithson it's based on a subset of a You Gov poll for the Sun.

Mike Smithson said:

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 10h 10 hours ago
The Express "Ukip in 2nd place" poll story is only relevant if carried out by proper pollster. Otherwise just tabloid rubbish.

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 5h 5 hours ago
The UKIP is 2nd place poll appears to be based on a subset of Sun readers from SunSunday YouGov poll. No data available yet

I'm actually hoovering round the YouGov site with my account and there is no sensible data that I ca see to support the Express story. Even if spot on and done correctly what does it say that hasn't been said many times.

Basically you can find pockets of voters who will probably, based on current situation, put UKIP in first place, there are more who will put them in second place in the 2015GE, and there are others who put them way down or nowhere.

Summary, wait and see, but essentially meh.

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

Guam said:

Greg66 said:

Third time's a charm, even with the evasive: do you consider the Express an authoritative news source? A simple yes no will suffice.

Given there is no media source without some kind of agenda and they all twist the news to suit their "readership" then there can be effectively no such thing.

"Gotcha" question is too obvious!

Quite, on the issue of the Express "poll" according Mike Smithson it's based on a subset of a You Gov poll for the Sun.

Mike Smithson said:

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 10h 10 hours ago
The Express "Ukip in 2nd place" poll story is only relevant if carried out by proper pollster. Otherwise just tabloid rubbish.

Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB · 5h 5 hours ago
The UKIP is 2nd place poll appears to be based on a subset of Sun readers from SunSunday YouGov poll. No data available yet

I'm actually hoovering round the YouGov site with my account and there is no sensible data that I ca see to support the Express story. Even if spot on and done correctly what does it say that hasn't been said many times.

Basically you can find pockets of voters who will probably, based on current situation, put UKIP in first place, there are more who will put them in second place in the 2015GE, and there are others who put them way down or nowhere.

Summary, wait and see, but essentially meh.

Exactly. It's the difference between printing utterly disingenuous claptrap (the Express; see also its groundbreaking work on apocalyptic weather forecasts and Diana conspiracy nonsense) and having an agenda (the rest, or at least most of them).

[Zod]

dandarez said:

Or perhaps more appropriate?
...suitably 'Kippered'!

Anyway, you miss the point in saying 3,000 is not a big majority to defend in May.

The point is, and was, the Tories were previously sitting on a NINE THOUSAND MAJORITY which Ukip has overturned rather easily, and this despite the Tories throwing everything at this by-election ...including the kitchen sink ...and the worktop!

Who, what, can stop the Kipper train?

You could think of it a different way: Reckless ended up with a reduced majority. Our system is supposed to be about the MP, not the party. Obviously, that is less and less the case these days, but if he was a good MP, he really ought to have increased his majority.

[Zod]

Guam said:

Indeed, watching this thread over the weekend, other than the banal XJF nonsense which seemingly infects every thread these days, the reality is its turning out pretty much as we both anticipated.

Glad we agree on XJF's outpourings.

[King Cnut]

Hate to say it, but XJ does have a point regarding the potential of Brexit to cause a sudden influx of Europeans immediately prior to the closing of borders.

He may be a complete nutter but on this he has a point. Unless we were to close the borders in advance of a Brexit, without warning, there would be no way of stopping a tidal wave of immigration. It could make the partition of India look like a well organised garden party.

[Yazar]

King said:

He may be a complete nutter but on this he has a point. Unless we were to close the borders in advance of a Brexit, without warning, there would be no way of stopping a tidal wave of immigration. It could make the partition of India look like a well organised garden party.

It doesn't matter. A bit of common-sense and they will leave on their own accord.

A migrant on minimum wage + top-up benefits + free health + free schoools etc can survive
A migrant in minimum wage having to pay out for everything will soon find it non worthwhile.

So give benefits to those migrants in roles which we cannot do without/who have worked x amount of years, and remove from the big issue/car washers types.

[Esseesse]

King said:

Hate to say it, but XJ does have a point regarding the potential of Brexit to cause a sudden influx of Europeans immediately prior to the closing of borders.

He may be a complete nutter but on this he has a point. Unless we were to close the borders in advance of a Brexit, without warning, there would be no way of stopping a tidal wave of immigration. It could make the partition of India look like a well organised garden party.

It just requires agreement that in the case of a 'no' vote, as soon as the vote is declared, the borders are controlled and anyone coming here is given a 2 year work visa (or month holiday visa) so that it can be reviewed/they can go home after Article 50 negotiations.

[Esseesse]

I'm surprised to see today that the British Communist Party seem to be against the EU...

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/britain/eu.html

[edh]

Esseesse said:

I'm surprised to see today that the British Communist Party seem to be against the EU...

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/britain/eu.html

There has always been plenty of opposition to the EU from the left - the CP say they oppose an "undemocratic, neoliberal EU superstate". I'd agree with that. Of course we also have an undemocratic, neoliberal UK and that needs to be changed as well

[hidetheelephants]

Esseesse said:

I'm surprised to see today that the British Communist Party seem to be against the EU...

http://www.communist-party.org.uk/britain/eu.html

They're just jealous of the EUSSR's success where CUGB failed.