UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[NicD]

smn159 said:

What makes you think that she's more knowledgable? A quick Google of her name suggests that she studied Business Studies and Tourism at Slough Poly - Oh OK, Thames Valley University - and then worked for a healthcare agency.

Do you really not need any prior knowledge of your area to be a UKIP spokesman?

Apologies in advance if I've missed anything and she's actually a lawyer

are you the spokesman for Mr t?

or in your own right, are you disagreeing with her? If so, then do so, with factual, researched points, rather than innuendo.

[smn159]

NicD said:

are you the spokesman for Mr t?

or in your own right, are you disagreeing with her? If so, then do so, with factual, researched points, rather than innuendo.

Not sure what innuendo you are referring to, I was just questioning your 'appeal to authority' argument.

You were implying that she was more knowledgable than someone else on a subject because she is the UKIP spokesman on it. On the face of it though she seems to have no qualifications or evidence of any prior knowledge of her brief, so it may well be that she actually knows less than MrrT - I don't know and presumably nor do you.

Why do the kippers get so angry when questioned?

[NicD]

smn159 said:

Not sure what innuendo you are referring to, I was just questioning your 'appeal to authority' argument.

You were implying that she was more knowledgable than someone else on a subject because she is the UKIP spokesman on it. On the face of it though she seems to have no qualifications or evidence of any prior knowledge of her brief, so it may well be that she actually knows less than MrrT - I don't know and presumably nor do you.

Why do the kippers get so angry when questioned?

you seem to be the one blathering.
I posted no 'appeal to authority.

I posted what she wrote. If you disagree with it, then say so and why.

Your suggestion that a law degree would somehow qualify someone on this topic is as laughable as calling another poster a smelly type of smoked fish.

[smn159]

NicD said:

I posted what she wrote. If you disagree with it, then say so and why.

You might start by answering the points raised by Mrr T earlier without cutting and pasting stuff that other people wrote.

[dandarez]

blindswelledrat said:

dandarez said:

Hmm. Real?

Cant should be can't.

More to the point, if you actually look again, it says past-time, not pass-time.

But yes, you're correct, it should be pastime.


How to pass time to ensure you get it correct ...with this little pastime!

The geek’s pastime is reading comic books.
The geek passes time reading comic books.
It is way past time for the geek to read his comic books.

The bully passed time beating up geeks.
Beating up geeks was the bully’s pastime.
It is way past time for the bully to stop beating up geeks.

Did you really just type all that?

'course I did. And from memory.
I'm a publisher, I live in judgement of others.
Bit like a barrister? Well, it's my job to recall, edit, criticise ...and especially, roll my eyes!

[NicD]

smn159 said:

NicD said:

I posted what she wrote. If you disagree with it, then say so and why.

You might start by answering the points raised by Mrr T earlier without cutting and pasting stuff that other people wrote.

What is your value in this exchange?
Mr T must answer the questions in my reply to him.
His condescending utterings on their own hold little value

[JustAnotherLogin]

Well NicD. I know you want Mrr T to answer, not anyone else but in case he is too modest, the evidence in front of us is that he is more knowledgeable on this subject.

A quick google suggests that this agreement does come from the Council of Europe, e.g. see our own legislation to embody it
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...

and google also shows that the Council of Eurpope is not the same as, or part of, or controlled by, the EU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe

Since that undermines the whole of the UKIP's spokeswomen's statement, I'd say that Mrr T wins by default.

[FiF]

European Framework Decision (2008/090/JHA-Transfer of Sentenced Prisoners

:cough:

[Gaspode]

FiF said:

European Framework Decision (2008/090/JHA-Transfer of Sentenced Prisoners

:cough:

? This is not my area of epertise, but according to wiki, Framework decisions were abolished under the Lisbon Treaty, and the UK had an opt-out from compliance, with their effect terminating from 1/12/2014.

So we aren't compliant in any case, which makes it difficult for me to see how we can moan that other countries aren't compliant either?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_decision

[JustAnotherLogin]

FiF said:

European Framework Decision (2008/090/JHA-Transfer of Sentenced Prisoners

:cough:

ah
Have we all been talking about slightly different things?

[FiF]

Gaspode said:

FiF said:

European Framework Decision (2008/090/JHA-Transfer of Sentenced Prisoners

:cough:

? This is not my area of epertise, but according to wiki, Framework decisions were abolished under the Lisbon Treaty, and the UK had an opt-out from compliance, with their effect terminating from 1/12/2014.

So we aren't compliant in any case, which makes it difficult for me to see how we can moan that other countries aren't compliant either?

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framework_decision

.
Mine neither but I thought the Lisbon treaty meant that in future framework decisions would no longer be the mechanism, but would be replaced by regulations, directives and decisions. Which is different from saying those framework decisions were cancelled.

As for the opt out I thought this was covered under the later opt back in to 2008/909/JHA.

I think that some confusion between the various parties above can be forgiven.

[TKF]

NicD said:

Mr T must answer the questions in my reply to him.

Do you realise that
a) the way you're wording that is utterly cringeworthy and makes you sound even more pompous than usual (quite the achievement),
b) it's Mrr T, not the actual Mr T you're demanding answers from and,
c) sucker.

[Yazar]

Osborne talks 'at' the other EU leaders.

tele said:

George Osborne has told Europe's elites in Davos that large parts of the eurozone are unfit for EU membership with Britain until they carry out deep reforms and copy his economic strategy, leaving his audience open-mouthed with astonishment.

The Chancellor warned that Britain may withdraw from the EU unless there is a new treaty arrangement for countries that reject the superstate project. "We want to be part of a reformed EU but there are two conditions: it must be a job-creating union, and it must respect the needs of non-euro members."

...Basking in self-congratulation - and indifferent to how this might sound to foreign ears - he told the forum that Britain had the fastest growing economy in the developed world last year, is enjoying the fastest drop in unemployment in its history and is now the "go-to location" for investors from across the globe.

"We are the second biggest economy in Europe, and we will be the largest by 2030," he told a panel of Europeans at the World Economic Forum in Davos. This implies that UK output would overtake German GDP within 15 years. German finance minister Wolfgang Schauble listened in stony-faced silence a few feet away.

Mr Osborne said there is no prospect of Britain joining the euro or becoming part of a "centralising project". This fact has long-term implications that can no longer be finessed. "The treaties need to reflect the pressures that this can bring about," he said at a CNBC debate.

...The haughty tone of his comments is certain to infuriate European policymakers, who think Britain is stealing extra growth from the future by running an irresponsible credit bubble, with a budget deficit of 5pc of GDP and a current account of 6pc, the worst in peacetime history. The view in Brussels is that Britain is once again riding for a fall.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/d...

Forbes take on it:

forbes said:

it’s not really about whether he truly believes what he’s saying about the economy, either of Britain or the eurozone. This is about that coming election and subsequent referendum. Osborne needs to be seen as eurosceptic and at least threatening to leave if reform of the EU does not happen. So, that’s what he does.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/01/24...

Edited by Yazar on Saturday 24th January 14:11

[NicD]

TKF said:

Do you realise that
a) the way you're wording that is utterly cringeworthy and makes you sound even more pompous than usual (quite the achievement),
b) it's Mrr T, not the actual Mr T you're demanding answers from and,
c) sucker.

Are you giving me twonk 'grammar' lessons?
I write in a simple, methodical style so even stupid people can understand.
Sorry if you feel it pompous and cringeworthy.

Why don't you and fellow travellers make an actual contribution instead of your rather sad attempt to slag posters off.

[Countdown]

Are the wheels coming off the bandwagon?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/21/ukip-nh...

[NicD]

JustAnotherLogin said:

FiF said:

European Framework Decision (2008/090/JHA-Transfer of Sentenced Prisoners

:cough:

ah
Have we all been talking about slightly different things?

So what is the answer on the topic I raised?
Sounds not easy to 'research' yourself and I would forgive anyone for going half cocked.
It was only the condescending homily about 'kippers' that piqued me, with the various useful idiots joining with their useless 'contributions'

[NicD]

Countdown said:

Are the wheels coming off the bandwagon?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/21/ukip-nh...

is that the 'wheels coming off' or actually being tightened up?

'In one set of minutes leaked to the Daily Mirror from a meeting of Ukip's national executive, Farage told top Ukip members that the party's "problem" was that it was "promising the earth to everybody" by making pledges that it could not afford.'

This makes very good sense to talk about and I am pleased to see such a discussion.

[FiF]

NicD said:

So what is the answer on the topic I raised?
Sounds not easy to 'research' yourself and I would forgive anyone for going half cocked.
It was only the condescending homily about 'kippers' that piqued me, with the various useful idiots joining with their useless 'contributions'

I can't add anything more than I did tbh.

I agree it's not easy to understand, especially as the EU directive thingy was in force alongside the Council of Europe PTA. Two or maybe more sets of rules operating in parallel. Sounds like lawyers would love that with free throws of the dice aplenty.

Indeed can recall the concerns when the EU directive came in over prisoners could now be repatriated without their agreement.

Wind in all the opt outs and opt ins, and derogation, like Poland, where aiui prisoners cannot be repatriated as Poland won't accept them. Unless the prisoner has agreed to the repatriation in which case then Poland might agree to accept them.

It's a dog's breakfast and don't really have any answer.

But I do agree with the general distaste for the way in which the question was ignored and deteriorated into a "WTF do you know about it then" and "your authority knows less than bugger all about anything much" that sullies so much of the place.

Then they wonder why people don't engage.

[zygalski]

Countdown said:

Are the wheels coming off the bandwagon?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/21/ukip-nh...

Thing is, the kind of voter that Farage is going for isn't the slightest bit interested in whether the sums add up or not. Their target group can be summed up in three words:
Lowest
Common
Denominator
We have plenty of disaffected folk in this country who think the world owes them a living & "someone else" is to blame for their woes. Whinging is what we tend to do best, alongside being stuck with ridiculous selective amnesia romantic ideas of the past. It's the English disease.

[JustAnotherLogin]

NicD said:

Countdown said:

Are the wheels coming off the bandwagon?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/21/ukip-nh...

is that the 'wheels coming off' or actually being tightened up?

'In one set of minutes leaked to the Daily Mirror from a meeting of Ukip's national executive, Farage told top Ukip members that the party's "problem" was that it was "promising the earth to everybody" by making pledges that it could not afford.'

This makes very good sense to talk about and I am pleased to see such a discussion.

It does make sense to talk about. And whilst I don't have the details of Farage's proposal for the NHS, so I don't know whether I would agree with it, at least he is trying to come up with a solution for the NHS. Unfortunately the idea has been suppressed as unpopular just as most to do with NHS are. The Tories have been the only ones brave enough to even try and look how that has harmed then.

As for the rest, whilst he is right to try and ensure things are unaffordable, it looks like he is in a small minority and they aren't coming up with workable policies. And of course in the vacuum that is left you have idiots like Lynton Yates going off on ridiculous tangents.

I don't suppose this will impact the core vote much, since for them the EU and immigration trump all other areas of policy, but extending the support base may be difficult. Indeed the polls are showing a significant drop over the last 4 months that might reflect this.