UKIP - The Future - Volume 3

[zygalski]

Zod said:

I have three. The eldest will be nine next month. The debt will never be paid off and there is no need to do so, any more than there is for the US. It just needs to be kept within more prudent limits. Devaluation of sterling would not solve the issue. It would be seen as a default by creditors and would trigger a depression....

Yep 100% correct. Our wonderful system relies on debt to sustain it. The national debt just seems to need to be vaguely manageable & vaguely predictable.
Exactly the same on a personal debt level. If, for instance, everyone halved their credit card debts tomorrow then the UK economy would come crashing down around us & make the 2008 depression seem like a little blip. UK credit card debt alone equates to £2300 per household....

[Yazar]

Mrr T said:

Romanians will tell you a very large proportion of those arrested in London holding Romanian citizenship are Roma Gypsies.

More of the usual from you, when will you stop and post some facts to back up what you convince yourself of?

Will your Romanian buddies also point to Romania's position on the global corruption index compared to Britain? Strange as the Roma being penniless and lacking any influence will have minimal influence on that factor.

All the 'Its only the Roma' and 'non-romanians are whiter than white' is crap. The illiterate, uneducated Roma that they, & you, point to can't use computers never mind be at the centre of the significant industry that is Romanian Cybercrime back home and now controlling ATM fraud here.

Mrr T - start backing up what you say with proper evidence, "that bloke I know who is a Romanian Scientist" is not a statistically valid sample size.

Edited by Yazar on Friday 6th March 11:28

[turbobloke]

zygalski said:

Zod said:

I have three. The eldest will be nine next month. The debt will never be paid off and there is no need to do so, any more than there is for the US. It just needs to be kept within more prudent limits. Devaluation of sterling would not solve the issue. It would be seen as a default by creditors and would trigger a depression....

Yep 100% correct. Our wonderful system relies on debt to sustain it. The national debt just seems to need to be vaguely manageable & vaguely predictable.
Exactly the same on a personal debt level. If, for instance, everyone halved their credit card debts tomorrow then the UK economy would come crashing down around us & make the 2008 depression seem like a little blip. UK credit card debt alone equates to £2300 per household....

Which doesn't sound much but then average cash savings barely cover it.

[Yazar]

steveT350C said:

Immigration leads to 50 per cent cuts in council spending, IFS finds
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

That article lists my area as one that will be hardest hit by population growth over the next 5 years.

What they fail to mention is that it won't be the incoming immigrants who can afford to live here, but rather the 2nd gen immigrants and Brits, basically anyone with cash who is able to flee the sthole many areas of London have firmly become is doing so.

[zygalski]

turbobloke said:

zygalski said:

Zod said:

I have three. The eldest will be nine next month. The debt will never be paid off and there is no need to do so, any more than there is for the US. It just needs to be kept within more prudent limits. Devaluation of sterling would not solve the issue. It would be seen as a default by creditors and would trigger a depression....

Yep 100% correct. Our wonderful system relies on debt to sustain it. The national debt just seems to need to be vaguely manageable & vaguely predictable.
Exactly the same on a personal debt level. If, for instance, everyone halved their credit card debts tomorrow then the UK economy would come crashing down around us & make the 2008 depression seem like a little blip. UK credit card debt alone equates to £2300 per household....

Which doesn't sound much but then average cash savings barely cover it.

Average household debt in the UK (excluding mortgages) was £6000 in November 2014.
Including mortgages it was over £54000.
Average cash savings per adult are around £1600.

[steveT350C]

"I'm not the Messiah, I'm a very naughty boy".

http://home.bt.com/news/odd-news/the-life-of-nigel...

[turbobloke]

zygalski said:

turbobloke said:

zygalski said:

Zod said:

I have three. The eldest will be nine next month. The debt will never be paid off and there is no need to do so, any more than there is for the US. It just needs to be kept within more prudent limits. Devaluation of sterling would not solve the issue. It would be seen as a default by creditors and would trigger a depression....

Yep 100% correct. Our wonderful system relies on debt to sustain it. The national debt just seems to need to be vaguely manageable & vaguely predictable.
Exactly the same on a personal debt level. If, for instance, everyone halved their credit card debts tomorrow then the UK economy would come crashing down around us & make the 2008 depression seem like a little blip. UK credit card debt alone equates to £2300 per household....

Which doesn't sound much but then average cash savings barely cover it.

Average household debt in the UK (excluding mortgages) was £6000 in November 2014.
Including mortgages it was over £54000.
Average cash savings per adult are around £1600.

Yes indeed once you add in all debts beyond credit cards, the picture worsens, though even so the average net worth of each UK household is around £149,000 which is fine as long as we're talking about a household - and thanks are due to house price inflation, for now at least.

[Mrr T]

Yazar said:

More of the usual from you, when will you stop and post some facts to back up what you convince yourself of?

Will your Romanian buddies also point to Romania's position on the global corruption index compared to Britain? Strange as the Roma being penniless and lacking any influence will have minimal influence on that factor.

All the 'Its only the Roma' and 'non-romanians are whiter than white' is crap. The illiterate, uneducated Roma that they, & you, point to can't use computers never mind be at the centre of the significant industry that is Romanian Cybercrime back home and now controlling ATM fraud here.

Mrr T - start backing up what you say with proper evidence, "that bloke I know who is a Romanian Scientist" is not a statistically valid sample size.

No idea what you want. I quoted what someone else said. Do you want me to record it next time so I can play it as evidence!

As for any connection between street crime in the UK and the global corruption index you really have no idea do you.

[Mrr T]

Scuffers said:

Mrr T said:

Scuffers said:

Please explain how allowing Romanian's in as we have for the last ~14 months has enriched our society or helped the economy?

You really do have a problem with Romanians. Have you ever met any? Have you visited Romania?

Of the Romanians I know in the UK (some came more than 14 mths ago and they all live outside London). 3 are qualified nurses, 1 a field service engineer, and another a lorry driver. All those earn at or above the UK average income outside London. 2 work on a farm full time and wages are less than average income but they get accommodations. 2 have partners earning close to minimum wage, but both are also in part time education to increase their qualifications.

2 get child benefit but none have received any other UK benefit.

not specifically, no. (I have worked there briefly many moons ago)

I have a problem with open door immigration that allows any tom/dick/etc in without any checks whatsoever.

of your examples, Nurses (suitably qualified) would be welcome, not sure we need more lorry drivers, and without knowing more about the field service engineer's role, cant make much comment on that one.

No problems we have always differed on some immigration and that's fine.

You should visit Roumania. High mountains, huge river, some spectacular cities, sandy beaches, and very cheap to eat and drink.

[fido]

Mrr T said:

Romanians will tell you a very large proportion of those arrested in London holding Romanian citizenship are Roma Gypsies.

Did they also mention the shocking discrimination (for the 21st century) in Romania where they are excluded from schools, housing and education - no wonders they turn to crime. Why doesn't your lovely EU tackle the problem at source instead of exporting the problem? And you still haven't provided a good reason why immigration shouldn't be restricted to some degree by the skills and background of the application - "my friends are from X and they're all lovely" doesn't really cut it. I've travelled to many countries around the world and they all consist of nice people and scumbags - doesn't mean they all deserve residency here.

Edited by fido on Friday 6th March 13:27

[MGJohn]

fido said:

Mrr T said:

Romanians will tell you a very large proportion of those arrested in London holding Romanian citizenship are Roma Gypsies.

fido said:

Did they also mention the shocking discrimination (for the 21st century) in Romania where they are excluded from schools, housing and education - no wonders they turn to crime.

fido said:

Why doesn't your lovely EU tackle the problem at source instead of exporting the problem? And you still haven't provided a good reason why immigration shouldn't be restricted to some degree by the skills and background of the application - "my friends are from X and they're all lovely" doesn't really cut it.

fido said:

I've travelled to many countries around the world and they all consist of nice people and scumbags - doesn't mean they all deserve residency here.

Such sense and balanced reason has no place here in EU dominated UK. Most un-PC.

Whatever next? You'll be voting for the United Kingdom Independence Party.

Can't have that ....

[Mrr T]

fido said:

Did they also mention the shocking discrimination (for the 21st century) in Romania where they are excluded from schools, housing and education - no wonders they turn to crime. Why doesn't your lovely EU tackle the problem at source instead of exporting the problem? And you still haven't provided a good reason why immigration shouldn't be restricted to some degree by the skills and background of the application - "my friends are from X and they're all lovely" doesn't really cut it. I've travelled to many countries around the world and they all consist of nice people and scumbags - doesn't mean they all deserve residency here.

No according to them its all the gypsies fault. I have no idea.

"my beloved EU"? you do remember I want to leave the EU.

As for the free movement of labour one reason I am in favour of it because I do not want to go back to having to get a work permit to work in Brussels, a city closer to me than Birmingham.

[anonymous-user]

NicD said:

Scuffers said:

cookie118 said:

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Using that logic:
http://rt.com/uk/237245-ukip-children-brainwashing...

so, another racist, homophobic UKIP member!

care to explain this one?

To be honest, you've lost me?

his perverted 'logic' has equated sentenced crimes with unsubstantiated claims by an embittered ex wife.

The idea that a large proportion of immigrants are criminals is often used (rightly or wrongly) by those who oppose immigration. You have picked on a single incident of an immigrant commiting a crime to promote your anti immigration agenda.

The idea that a large proportion of UKIP members are racist/homophobic/prejudiced is often used by those who oppose UKIP. I have (facetiously) picked a single incident of a racist UKIP member to promote an anti-UKIP agenda.

If you'd like to use statistics when getting us 'back on track' and have a reasoned debate then fine, but what you did was pick out a single isolated story and equate that to the entire migrant population.

Btw NicD-is every ex (who's a woman) bitter and twisted? Do you know that she's wrong?

[Scuffers]

cookie118 said:

The idea that a large proportion of immigrants are criminals is often used (rightly or wrongly) by those who oppose immigration. You have picked on a single incident of an immigrant commiting a crime to promote your anti immigration agenda.

point taken, however, do you not think it would be better if we could manage migrants from *any* country to weed out the ones we do not want?

[steveT350C]

Scuffers said:

cookie118 said:

The idea that a large proportion of immigrants are criminals is often used (rightly or wrongly) by those who oppose immigration. You have picked on a single incident of an immigrant commiting a crime to promote your anti immigration agenda.

point taken, however, do you not think it would be better if we could manage migrants from *any* country to weed out the ones we do not want?

Scuffers' simple question hits nail squarely.

It's not about what country you come from or what shade of brown you are. It's about what you bring to the party going on in UK,,,

and whether we want you.

Simples.

[NicD]

cookie118 said:

NicD said:

Scuffers said:

cookie118 said:

Scuffers said:

just to keep on topic..

Romanian pickpocket stole 22 mobile phones from dancers at Kasabian gig within days of arriving in Britain ‘for a better life’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2979303/Ro...

so, another economy enriching migrant!

Using that logic:
http://rt.com/uk/237245-ukip-children-brainwashing...

so, another racist, homophobic UKIP member!

care to explain this one?

To be honest, you've lost me?

Frankly, any UK resident who opposes targeted immigration either has some personal motivation (that they should disclose) or has not through the topic.

his perverted 'logic' has equated sentenced crimes with unsubstantiated claims by an embittered ex wife.

The idea that a large proportion of immigrants are criminals is often used (rightly or wrongly) by those who oppose immigration. You have picked on a single incident of an immigrant commiting a crime to promote your anti immigration agenda.

The idea that a large proportion of UKIP members are racist/homophobic/prejudiced is often used by those who oppose UKIP. I have (facetiously) picked a single incident of a racist UKIP member to promote an anti-UKIP agenda.

If you'd like to use statistics when getting us 'back on track' and have a reasoned debate then fine, but what you did was pick out a single isolated story and equate that to the entire migrant population.

Btw NicD-is every ex (who's a woman) bitter and twisted? Do you know that she's wrong?

I deal with facts, and you have not 'proven' anything.
The example of the EU criminal was a reported case. That is 'evidence'.
I nowhere saw anyone 'equate 'anything to the 'entire .... population.' except YOU.
The ex wife made embittered statements, so that is how I characterise her. If you have evidence to the contrary, go ahead.

But frankly, you need to get ypur thoughts in order before anymore posts.

[vonuber]

fk me, more attacks against romanians? I thought you'd all moved onto accusing all asian people of being murderers of teenage girls. Good to see you are back on form in here.

[Mermaid]

vonuber said:

fk me, more attacks against romanians?

Do you feel Romanians do not help themselves?

[Scuffers]

vonuber said:

fk me, more attacks against romanians? I thought you'd all moved onto accusing all asian people of being murderers of teenage girls. Good to see you are back on form in here.

Sadly, its hard to argue with the numbers.

More romaininas in UK prisons (as a % of numbers in the UK) than any other nationality.

As for Asians, going on Rochester, oxford, rotherham, etc. Kind of makes it hard not to come to that conclusion.

[turbobloke]

Using the phrase 'attacks against Romanians' is way off the mark and borderline scurrilous. The word attack is simply inapplicable to a discussion of arrest and crime stats, and the phrasing used above suggests all Romanians are somehow targeted when the posts I've read show concern only at those who perpetrate crimes in the UK. It would seem natural for law-abiding sons and daughters of gentlefolk to be unsopportive of any and all criminals regardless of nationality. All totally egalitarian. The case for PH generating and deserving opprobrium in this matter is lost completely.