Discussion
My work situation has changed where im going to have to travel a fair few miles each day. That means my low 20mpg daily is probably going to go.
At first i was thinking about getting a smoker - nothing takes my fancy. So now im thinking about getting myself a weekend motor and just buying a cheap 1L type s
tter to plod up the motorway to work, get left in a very busy car park to get banged and scratched etc
I want something that wont get to much use and im not going to loose any money on. After looking at the price of these over the last few years on and off, i think the E36 M3 probably fits the bill very nicely.
Ive never driven one or any E36, what are they like as a car ?
Presumably pretty bullet proof and well made. A lot you see for sale are high miles and dont fancy big repair bills for something i wont use much. Im handy with the spanners but im not sure of the cost of parts for things like this.
How are they for rust ? I suppose they are getting to that age when this could become a problem.
Any other things to be aware of when looking ?
At first i was thinking about getting a smoker - nothing takes my fancy. So now im thinking about getting myself a weekend motor and just buying a cheap 1L type s
tter to plod up the motorway to work, get left in a very busy car park to get banged and scratched etc I want something that wont get to much use and im not going to loose any money on. After looking at the price of these over the last few years on and off, i think the E36 M3 probably fits the bill very nicely.
Ive never driven one or any E36, what are they like as a car ?
Presumably pretty bullet proof and well made. A lot you see for sale are high miles and dont fancy big repair bills for something i wont use much. Im handy with the spanners but im not sure of the cost of parts for things like this.
How are they for rust ? I suppose they are getting to that age when this could become a problem.
Any other things to be aware of when looking ?
I'm sure the first thing most people would mention is the VANOS, which can fail. I believe these days it is around £750 to put right on an Evo with Mr. Vanos. The 3.2 is supposedly worse than the 3.0 for this, but I never had trouble with either of my Evos. SMG can be pretty problematic and again apparently the 3.0 box is more robust than the six-speed in the Evo, but again I never had any trouble with either of mine. Things I did have to replace were front wishbones, rear trailing arm bushes (RTABs) and rear top mounts. The rear top mounts can fail and the result can be a strut puncturing the boot, which happened to my first E36 M3 Evo in the hands of the previous owner. Rogue Engineering make an uprated set or I believe the Z3 items come with a reinforcement plate. The diff mounts on my second Evo also were worn to the point of knocking and was the one piece of work I didn't attempt as I needed the car and having two small kids didn't have the time. From memory, it was a £300 bill at a specialist.
Rust is a particular issue, primarily to rear arches, the boot lid and jacking points (take the jacking point rubbers out and check the floor around them). Both of mine had rear arch rust and one was much worse underneath than the other.
Window regulators also fail, though this is usually limited to the auto-up and down features and they will continue to work in manual mode. As always seems to be the case with BMWs, often the A/C doesn't work. On one of mine the fan was the issue on the other it was a leak from the compressor, but it did work for a month or so when topped up. Brakes are very expensive to replace, so it's worth checking they've had those sorted recently. Throttle cables are often not adjusted for wear, so you may not get the full travel of the throttle bodies. From memory, all you have to do is adjust it until the revs start to rise at idle. The cables can also cause the throttle to feel very spongy when worn, but I found the throttle generally feels heavier than on other cars, probably because of the six throttle bodies. The chap who bought my first Evo kept on going on about replacing the throttle cable when it had been done only six months before, so I imagine he wasted some time and effort doing so for it to feel identical. Clutch hoses wear out too, which can cause trouble getting into first and reverse. On my second car this caused me to have to stamp the pedal a couple of times to get into gear. The fix is a braided hose, available from loads of places and a bleed of the system. I replaced mine on my drive in around an hour, so it isn't a difficult job.
Overall, they're lovely cars and I miss mine, but there are too many other things for me to own at the moment to go back.
Rust is a particular issue, primarily to rear arches, the boot lid and jacking points (take the jacking point rubbers out and check the floor around them). Both of mine had rear arch rust and one was much worse underneath than the other.
Window regulators also fail, though this is usually limited to the auto-up and down features and they will continue to work in manual mode. As always seems to be the case with BMWs, often the A/C doesn't work. On one of mine the fan was the issue on the other it was a leak from the compressor, but it did work for a month or so when topped up. Brakes are very expensive to replace, so it's worth checking they've had those sorted recently. Throttle cables are often not adjusted for wear, so you may not get the full travel of the throttle bodies. From memory, all you have to do is adjust it until the revs start to rise at idle. The cables can also cause the throttle to feel very spongy when worn, but I found the throttle generally feels heavier than on other cars, probably because of the six throttle bodies. The chap who bought my first Evo kept on going on about replacing the throttle cable when it had been done only six months before, so I imagine he wasted some time and effort doing so for it to feel identical. Clutch hoses wear out too, which can cause trouble getting into first and reverse. On my second car this caused me to have to stamp the pedal a couple of times to get into gear. The fix is a braided hose, available from loads of places and a bleed of the system. I replaced mine on my drive in around an hour, so it isn't a difficult job.
Overall, they're lovely cars and I miss mine, but there are too many other things for me to own at the moment to go back.
Service history is more important than mileage. Vanos filter/bolts/seals changes will go a long way in preserving its life. Listen out for a rattly noise which would indicate a broken vanos. You should feel the kicks at 2500rpm and 5000rpm (for the Evo).
Rust is very common so watch out. Most importantly, look at a few and don't go buying the first or cheapest one you see because there are a few dogs out there.
Rust is very common so watch out. Most importantly, look at a few and don't go buying the first or cheapest one you see because there are a few dogs out there.
theshrew said:
Thanks thats a great reply.
Were the cars you had high mileage or do these problems crop up at any time ? particualy the vanos and box issues.
My first one had around 98k on it and the second around 135k. Of the two, the second one was in much better condition. I bought the first as a mate was out of work and needed the money. As someone else has mentioned, rust is the real issue. Were the cars you had high mileage or do these problems crop up at any time ? particualy the vanos and box issues.
There are lots of issues with these that can be expensive to sort out but they're not generally the sort of thing to leave you stranded by the side of the road. Off the top of my head:
Exhaust flexi joint cracks
Air con compressor leaks
Diff seals leaking
They need a suspension refresh if it's not been done, shocks and bushes all round. Discs are expensive too.
I prefer the feel of them to the E46 due to actually having a throttle cable and sensible sized wheels. Interiors are reasonably screwed together but feel very dated. I find Vaders very uncomfortable but they look great.
Not sure what your priorities are but I'd get one with good bodywork, as original and rust free as possible - the mechanical stuff is easier to fix IMO. If you budget £1500 a year to keep it tip-top, that's just over £100 pm and considering they're going up in value I think it's a good ownership prospect.
Exhaust flexi joint cracks
Air con compressor leaks
Diff seals leaking
They need a suspension refresh if it's not been done, shocks and bushes all round. Discs are expensive too.
I prefer the feel of them to the E46 due to actually having a throttle cable and sensible sized wheels. Interiors are reasonably screwed together but feel very dated. I find Vaders very uncomfortable but they look great.
Not sure what your priorities are but I'd get one with good bodywork, as original and rust free as possible - the mechanical stuff is easier to fix IMO. If you budget £1500 a year to keep it tip-top, that's just over £100 pm and considering they're going up in value I think it's a good ownership prospect.
Ive owned my evo for four or five years, had a 328i coupe before that.
My 2p: buy a 328i unless you really specifically want an m3. Theyve never been cheap to maintain and age hasnt helped that. Theyre a cracking car but when it comes to parts and running costs they have more in common with a porsche than another bmw.
My 2p: buy a 328i unless you really specifically want an m3. Theyve never been cheap to maintain and age hasnt helped that. Theyre a cracking car but when it comes to parts and running costs they have more in common with a porsche than another bmw.
The 328i is a good car but the M3 is in another league. Also there are very few decent manual coupes around.
Accept that it's going to cost a bit to run, offset by the (slight) appreciating value as opposed to a more modern car that's still losing money. I spent around £2k in the first year of ownership on both my e36 M3s.
I sold my M3 and got a 330i sport, nowhere near as interesting but comfortable, fairly modern by comparison and costs peanuts to run.
Accept that it's going to cost a bit to run, offset by the (slight) appreciating value as opposed to a more modern car that's still losing money. I spent around £2k in the first year of ownership on both my e36 M3s.
I sold my M3 and got a 330i sport, nowhere near as interesting but comfortable, fairly modern by comparison and costs peanuts to run.
Shaoxter said:
£1500 a year?? On what exactly?
They're probably the cheapest M car to maintain, no fancy electronics and it's not really a specialist car so lots of garages will be able to do the work.
I'd say the opposite, an E46 or E90 is probably cheaper to maintain...They're probably the cheapest M car to maintain, no fancy electronics and it's not really a specialist car so lots of garages will be able to do the work.
Bushes, brakes, tyres, servicing - not all yearly costs but when added to the more major stuff (and preventative stuff like updated ARP bolts, etc) I don't think it's too far off.
Depends how fussy you are - I did cosmetic work like wheel refurbs, window rubbers, replacing tatty interior parts too. As I said they're are a lot of things you can spend money on - you might not NEED to but these are becoming enthusiasts cars are many will want to keep them in good shape.
duff said:
I'd say the opposite, an E46 or E90 is probably cheaper to maintain...
Bushes, brakes, tyres, servicing - not all yearly costs but when added to the more major stuff (and preventative stuff like updated ARP bolts, etc) I don't think it's too far off.
All those things are more expensive on an E46/E90 M3. The E36 is a simpler car mechanically and routine servicing is cheaper.Bushes, brakes, tyres, servicing - not all yearly costs but when added to the more major stuff (and preventative stuff like updated ARP bolts, etc) I don't think it's too far off.
Of course when you start doing things like entire suspension refreshes, seat reupholstering, replacement roof for cabrios (just did this for £1.2k this year) then it gets expensive.
stevep944 said:
Can the 'refresh' items like suspension and brakes be done easily enough by a reasonably competent home mechanic in their garage?
It's largely dependent on ability and facilities tbh. I do any top end, servicing, brakes and light suspension, etc myself, but something like shims, a clutch or prop work i'd farm out. Have threatened to get coilovers at some point too, but i think i'd have that done if i found someone i trusted, purely because i've done my time working under stuff at home.I'll say this though: for the performance theyre a fairly straightforward car and not horrific on economy on a run. To get the kick out of them though you do need to run them up the revs and then they do like a bit of a drink.
Pound for pound there's nothing out there to touch them.
VinceFox said:
Tell you what i have noticed, theyre becoming a lot more respected in the last few years. Can't see them getting any cheaper.
I agree, ive been keeping a eye on the price of them for a few years now and id say they were on the up. Which i one big reason why im looking at these. I dont see the point on buying something to use at weekends thats going to loose a load of value. From what ive seen pretty hard to find a nice one unless you want to pay silly money. Although tbh im pretty picky when it comes to buying cars and bikes.
stevep944 said:
Can the 'refresh' items like suspension and brakes be done easily enough by a reasonably competent home mechanic in their garage?
Dampers/springs/top mounts are all very easy to do at home, and brakes too. The biggest difficulty I found working on an e36 was rusty bolts. I ended up changing all bolts for new ones when I replaced other parts.theshrew said:
I agree, ive been keeping a eye on the price of them for a few years now and id say they were on the up. Which i one big reason why im looking at these. I dont see the point on buying something to use at weekends thats going to loose a load of value.
From what ive seen pretty hard to find a nice one unless you want to pay silly money. Although tbh im pretty picky when it comes to buying cars and bikes.
I reckon i looked at 7 or 8 before mine. A lot were bodged. Mine wasnt perfect but was honest. In the end i bought it because of this despite it being a colour i didn't particularly like.From what ive seen pretty hard to find a nice one unless you want to pay silly money. Although tbh im pretty picky when it comes to buying cars and bikes.
jonah35 said:
Get a GT2 if you can afford it.
Less a case of affording one, more a case of no such thing existing.An Evo should be able to manage mid-30s MPG on a run, which isn't bad. They're generally pretty reliable, but as others have said can suffer a few problems, but mostly age related now. They can suffer from water getting into the ECU enclosure, so that's another thing to keep an eye on.
The hardest part is finding a decent one. Lots of rusty old snotters around, very few properly cared for cars. Lots have been converted to track/race cars, as they offer such bang for buck.
If I could find a reason to oust something else to make room, I'd definitely have another.
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