Early apexing - need a slap!
Discussion
Loads of good feedback on here but lots of it not answering the original post, or I misunderstood the original post, one or the other.
What I understood it to mean was that Benjj, similar to me uses a rear wheel drive on limited grip surface technique where you give the car loads of turn-in and sort the corner out when you reach it with power and opposite lock (often incorrectly referred to as oversteer) . If you were to carry on with the amount of lock or the line you initially apply, you would be a couple of car widths over the apex curve so need correction during the corner or on the approach to regain a racing line. This is obviously not the way to do it but when you've spent 20 years driving Escorts in forests it is a very difficult habit to break.
The reason us rallyists do this is that you need to break the traction of the rear and power the car through the corner on opposite lock and steering with the loud pedal to get the quickest line round a corner in the forests. We are completely aware that this doesn't work on the track (although I raced the Escort at Silverstone last year and it did when it rained) .
If I misunderstood the OP then I apologise as the advice I gave was how I overcame it when I started racing.
What I understood it to mean was that Benjj, similar to me uses a rear wheel drive on limited grip surface technique where you give the car loads of turn-in and sort the corner out when you reach it with power and opposite lock (often incorrectly referred to as oversteer) . If you were to carry on with the amount of lock or the line you initially apply, you would be a couple of car widths over the apex curve so need correction during the corner or on the approach to regain a racing line. This is obviously not the way to do it but when you've spent 20 years driving Escorts in forests it is a very difficult habit to break.
The reason us rallyists do this is that you need to break the traction of the rear and power the car through the corner on opposite lock and steering with the loud pedal to get the quickest line round a corner in the forests. We are completely aware that this doesn't work on the track (although I raced the Escort at Silverstone last year and it did when it rained) .
If I misunderstood the OP then I apologise as the advice I gave was how I overcame it when I started racing.
slipstream 1985 said:
ginettajoe said:
slipstream 1985 said:
So are you saying that on a 90 right or left you would apex early trail brake to corner with a bit of slip angle to counter for the tightening of the corner from the early turn in?
No, the apex needs to be late, to give enough width at the exit to have the wheels straight at the earliest opportunity, and therefore, maximum power!!Greensleeves said:
Loads of good feedback on here but lots of it not answering the original post, or I misunderstood the original post, one or the other.
What I understood it to mean was that Benjj, similar to me uses a rear wheel drive on limited grip surface technique where you give the car loads of turn-in and sort the corner out when you reach it with power and opposite lock (often incorrectly referred to as oversteer) . If you were to carry on with the amount of lock or the line you initially apply, you would be a couple of car widths over the apex curve so need correction during the corner or on the approach to regain a racing line. This is obviously not the way to do it but when you've spent 20 years driving Escorts in forests it is a very difficult habit to break.
The reason us rallyists do this is that you need to break the traction of the rear and power the car through the corner on opposite lock and steering with the loud pedal to get the quickest line round a corner in the forests. We are completely aware that this doesn't work on the track (although I raced the Escort at Silverstone last year and it did when it rained) .
If I misunderstood the OP then I apologise as the advice I gave was how I overcame it when I started racing.
Don't the rallyists always beat the racing drivers when theres an us against them competition!! What I understood it to mean was that Benjj, similar to me uses a rear wheel drive on limited grip surface technique where you give the car loads of turn-in and sort the corner out when you reach it with power and opposite lock (often incorrectly referred to as oversteer) . If you were to carry on with the amount of lock or the line you initially apply, you would be a couple of car widths over the apex curve so need correction during the corner or on the approach to regain a racing line. This is obviously not the way to do it but when you've spent 20 years driving Escorts in forests it is a very difficult habit to break.
The reason us rallyists do this is that you need to break the traction of the rear and power the car through the corner on opposite lock and steering with the loud pedal to get the quickest line round a corner in the forests. We are completely aware that this doesn't work on the track (although I raced the Escort at Silverstone last year and it did when it rained) .
If I misunderstood the OP then I apologise as the advice I gave was how I overcame it when I started racing.
It is also a good way of making your car very wide
I haven't gotten the hang of power sliding mine just yet..its too short and I lack the talent.. I could always slide a MK2 though
happy days.I had my eyes opened a couple of years back when I followed Pete Morris through a couple of corners (this years PCGB Club Championship winner), it was only a couple of corners as I couldn't hold on to him any longer that. He did exactly as ginetta bloke is describing, long looping turn in and exit blending between throttle and brakes exactly as the physics (my speciality) says is best and is contrary to traditional advice. It seems to be how everyone at the top drives these days such that I think if you can't trail brake and manage the forces on the car efficiently you haven't got a hope in hell in ever winning anything of value.
NJH said:
I had my eyes opened a couple of years back when I followed Pete Morris through a couple of corners (this years PCGB Club Championship winner), it was only a couple of corners as I couldn't hold on to him any longer that. He did exactly as ginetta bloke is describing, long looping turn in and exit blending between throttle and brakes exactly as the physics (my speciality) says is best and is contrary to traditional advice. It seems to be how everyone at the top drives these days such that I think if you can't trail brake and manage the forces on the car efficiently you haven't got a hope in hell in ever winning anything of value.
You are absolutely right, and "traditional" advice is what you will regularly receive! Techniques are like cars themselves, where tyres, brakes, suspension and chassis have moved on, so have techniques, and those that feel there is a place for "tradition" will be left behind, so to speak!!This young lad uses Howard's technique and was taught to do it from the age of 16 in a 450 bhp TVR Tuscan challenge car,
This is the first race in the R300 championships and new lap record,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cHqIRynMNEU
This is the first race in the R300 championships and new lap record,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cHqIRynMNEU
johnfm said:
Main thing for slow novices is to check the mirrors a lot and let the fast guys through without incident. Moving roadblocks are dangerous....
Thanks for assuming that because we accept that we are not perfect that we are slow. ( probably not intended that way but unfortunately how it came across) I'm the portly one in the middle
johnfm said:
Main thing for slow novices is to check the mirrors a lot and let the fast guys through without incident. Moving roadblocks are dangerous....
Thanks for assuming that because we accept that we are not perfect that we are slow. ( probably not intended that way but unfortunately how it came across) I'm the portly one in the middle
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