RE: Toyota GT86 facelift details

[BILL PAYER]

A later day Vauxhall Calibra never fully developed to its full protential and its a shame, the question is why ?

[chrispj]

Pistonheads - where straight-line speed and soft-touch plastics matter...

Are there any reviews out there for the Cosworth power pack yet, the stage 1 n/a tune looks promising? I need a marginally more practical second car than the current 2 seater now we've a baby on the way. The GT86 looks the best option but I can't be getting something slower than the Skoda family wagon...

[3ananaPie]

chrispj said:

Pistonheads - where straight-line speed and soft-touch plastics matter...

Are there any reviews out there for the Cosworth power pack yet, the stage 1 n/a tune looks promising? I need a marginally more practical second car than the current 2 seater now we've a baby on the way. The GT86 looks the best option but I can't be getting something slower than the Skoda family wagon...

Cosworth packages are quite expensive for what they are. A decent exhaust, headers and tune with second cat out can make a substantial difference and reduce the torque dip around the 4k mark. Best to get in touch with Fensport or Abbey Motorsport.

[s m]

BILL PAYER said:

A later day Vauxhall Calibra never fully developed to its full protential and its a shame, the question is why ?

More like a latter day Opel Manta/AE86 - ultimately it was the hot hatches that put paid to those cars as well. The Manta had an old design of engine whereas the Toyota's was the same as used in the fwd hot hatch and small sports car. The hot hatches and sports cars got developed and lived on whereas the rwd coupes died because of falling sales

[percymk4]

Couple of months ago I was looking for a new car, a bit special, not used, and around the mid to low twenties, but something fun was the main criteria.
It came down to the GT86/BRZ or an MX5. Went for the Mazda in the end as to my eye it's a better looker, didn't need the back seats, a nicer place to sit and it has the option of putting the roof down. Plus I love the colour combo of the 25th anniversary edition.
The point about the roof was a bit of a clincher as I'd never had a convertible and always loved the idea of it. If the GT86/BRZ had a convertible option it would've been a much harder decision.
In summary, the GT86 and BRZ are great cars, I love that they exist and I'd have one a million times over rather than a big numb German barge, but they just weren't special enough for me to spend over twenty grand on one.

[Neezer]

Speed_Demon said:

Occasionally? I'd think every single time you came to a corner. When you don't need 4 seats and you want something built for a purpose, you don't want a hot RWD family hatch?

Well I can certainly understand the 'x-factor' in cars, and I do love the concept of the BRZ/Gt86, however do you really think that on the daily commute stuck in a line of cars travelling at 50mph down the same old overcrowded A road on a drizzly November morning the gt86 is going to be a demonstrably more exciting experience than any other that hatch/sports car of its ilk?

If you were to use it for a blast down deserted b-roads (like it was really designed for) regularly then yeah.. sure it'll be far more fun to be even even than something like a 911, and I'd be the very first person to agree with you. The Gt86 is a brilliant car for having fun in at sensible speeds, I get that. I also understand that a lot of the rivals are quite unremarkable until you are driving silly speeds.. I drive a Land Rover Defender (which is also a technically crap car in all measurable ways apart from utility) as my daily, so I'm hardly the kind of person just obsessed purely with speed either.

All I'm saying is that generally speaking on the old mundane day to day runs, does it really feel that more special to warrant all the compromises? And most people when spending this kind of money will just look at the specs on paper, which is unfortunately where the gt86/brz does fall down. You can't make a logical argument for one unfortunately and therein lies the problem.

I do love the gt86/BRZ, and I'm pretty sure at some point I'll own one.. I'm just sorry that they are a little too pricey for me to justify new. I followed the development closely and I was genuinely gutted when they were going to cost around 27k new.. I was hoping for around 20k..

[BILL PAYER]

s m said:

More like a latter day Opel Manta/AE86 - ultimately it was the hot hatches that put paid to those cars as well. The Manta had an old design of engine whereas the Toyota's was the same as used in the fwd hot hatch and small sports car. The hot hatches and sports cars got developed and lived on whereas the rwd coupes died because of falling sales

Had a brand new Manta GTE coupe back in 84 looked good and was a slightly over geared but great motorway cruiser

[MC Bodge]

chrispmartha said:

If the USP of a sports car is that it's dlow, I'm not suprised it's not selling ;-)

A lot of people seem to talk as if they race daily on the roads. Other than overtaking (which is limited in all cars compared with a motorbike), point-to-point in the UK isn't about engine performance -forward vision is usually the limiting factor.

I can see the appeal of a fine handling, lively car.

Then again I enjoy driving my wife's 64bhp shopping car on the back roads, as wellMondeo estate and riding a naked sports bike.

[s m]

BILL PAYER said:

s m said:

More like a latter day Opel Manta/AE86 - ultimately it was the hot hatches that put paid to those cars as well. The Manta had an old design of engine whereas the Toyota's was the same as used in the fwd hot hatch and small sports car. The hot hatches and sports cars got developed and lived on whereas the rwd coupes died because of falling sales

Had a brand new Manta GTE coupe back in 84 looked good and was a slightly over geared but great motorway cruiser

Opel/Vauxhall had a great engine that would have fitted in easily in the shape of the XE ( and would have given the car a very useful performance boost at the same time with 156bhp ) but, as with the Rwd AE86 Corolla Coupe ( which already had a more modern DOHC 16v ), the manufacturers decided to put their efforts into the better selling fwd hatchbacks. Back then the old rwd coupes like the Manta/Capri/Corolla were seen as old-fashioned and dynamically inferior

No idea how Toyota/Subaru are viewing the GT86/BRZ in terms of sales though

[swisstoni]

This was always going to be a niche product and I hope they aren't losing money on the idea cos the big makers should always be applauded when they try to make something pure. They are a pretty rare spot but then so are Caymans.

[urquattroGus]

Add me to the I like it, but would like another 50bhp brigade

M135i wise I average 31mpg overall, up to 40mpg on long motorway runs, and tax is £205 a year at 175 G of CO2. Tyres have also lasted amazingly well to just over 20,000 miles despite abuse, so overall quite reasonable to run.

[danp]

Neezer said:

Well I can certainly understand the 'x-factor' in cars, and I do love the concept of the BRZ/Gt86, however do you really think that on the daily commute stuck in a line of cars travelling at 50mph down the same old overcrowded A road on a drizzly November morning the gt86 is going to be a demonstrably more exciting experience than any other that hatch/sports car of its ilk?

Odd argument, what comparable car would you have for that? TT for it's lovely tft dash?

[foxhounduk]

Dear Sirs, my opinion;

What a pile of trash this car is.
Car that looks fast but does NOT go fast is an automotive no-no.
And spare me the, "it's not all about power, but feel" and drift nonsense.
And yes, I've driven one.

[Silverbullet767]

BILL PAYER said:

A later day Vauxhall Calibra never fully developed to its full protential and its a shame, the question is why ?

Going by modern Vauxhalls of late, it would weigh the same as a small moon, defeating the point.

[Kawasicki]

Deary me, have we really arrived at the point where there seems to be widespread agreement this 200bhp/1250kg car is considered slow. Why do I spend 90% of the time thinking my 140bhp/1125kg car is just too fast to be fun at legal speeds? Are there really that many drivers spending considerable time over 120mph?

[Alex]

foxhounduk said:

Dear Sirs, my opinion;

What a pile of trash this car is.
Car that looks fast but does NOT go fast is an automotive no-no.
And spare me the, "it's not all about power, but feel" and drift nonsense.
And yes, I've driven one.

You sir, know nothing about driving. I suggest you buy a 335d (mapped). It will be much faster than a GT86.

[chrispmartha]

Kawasicki said:

Deary me, have we really arrived at the point where there seems to be widespread agreement this 200bhp/1250kg car is considered slow. Why do I spend 90% of the time thinking my 140bhp/1125kg car is just too fast to be fun at legal speeds? Are there really that many drivers spending considerable time over 120mph?

I think you're slightly missing the point, it's not too slow in itself but I would say its too slow when stacked up against its opposition, and I would say thats part of the reason it's not selling.

[W124]

I'm a bit lost. Generally it has to be said, not just on this subject. But I despair. Do posters actually spend time racing cars on public roads? Somebody argued that the Megane RS would "slaughter" the Toyota. Well up to a point, maybe and on a track probably but then it's got sodding huge tyres on it. You know I hate to be a bellend but I'm just going to have to be. I've briefly driven the 265 Cup, the Golf R, the S3 and the m135i on the same circuit and I can say, without any doubt, two things. If you drive those cars on the limit, on a public road then you are an idiot and, secondly, I'd have a GT-86 over any of them without a moments thought. If you think a GT-86 is slow, then you cannot drive.

[otolith]

A new sushi restaurant opens on PH street. Some people like sushi, and since there hasn't been a similar restaurant on PH street for some time are very happy to have the option. Others don't like it, shrug, go and eat somewhere else. A vocal minority get very annoyed. "Why doesn't it have curry sauce on it?", they demand. "It would be much better with curry sauce", they opine. "I would still go and eat at one of the many Indian restaurants instead, but I would sleep better if the sushi restaurant was serving curry". "Also", they add, "Why is it so much more expensive than a filet-o-fish from McDonalds? Most people can't tell the difference. I personally once ate some deep fried cardboard and found it perfectly acceptable. Unless you are some hoity-toity expert restaurant critic you won't be able to tell reformed white fish in batter from raw tuna."

[s m]

Silverbullet767 said:

BILL PAYER said:

A later day Vauxhall Calibra never fully developed to its full protential and its a shame, the question is why ?

Going by modern Vauxhalls of late, it would weigh the same as a small moon, defeating the point.

Obviously it doesn't have all the modern crash protection or aircon etc but a Calibra 16v was 10kg lighter than a GT86


The Astra Coupe 888 was, I suppose, the closest thing to a hardcore driver's Calibra. Too much body kit and wing to be as light as a GT86 though - something like 60/70 kilos heavier