Discussion
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Erm... Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets....
Erm... The non-m alloy e46 wheels going from what, 7 to 8.5 inches wide keep the same offset by adding width symmetrically, not through offset. If it was added symmetrically, you'd get ~38mm offset variation!Most are 47mm, but they do Range from 36mm.
This is for OE, non staggered, non-M wheels.
Edited by Miner49er on Wednesday 22 October 14:29
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Erm... Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets....
Erm... The non-m alloy e46 wheels going from what, 7 to 8.5 inches wide keep the same offset by adding width symmetrically, not through offset. If it was added symmetrically, you'd get ~38mm offset variation!Most are 47mm, but they do Range from 36mm.
This is for OE, non staggered, non-M wheels.
Edited by Miner49er on Wednesday 22 October 14:29
Style 42 and 46 are 6.5" wide with 42mm offset which I guess is, as you suggested earlier to stop them looking too weedy!
I couldn't find any e46 (non-M / staggered!) wheels listed with lower tha 42mm offset.
Mave said:
A quick look through http://www.bmwstylewheels.com/ suggests the following OEM e46 wheels have 46 or 47mm offsets- styles 18, 25, 26, 27, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 41, 43, 45, 47, 50, 51, 54, 55, 71, 72, 73, 78, 79, 89, 96, 98, 101, 119, 125, 133,135, 136, 137, 152, 169, 171, 269. They have a range of widths down to 7"; So I wouldn't necessarily agree with the statement "in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets"
Style 42 and 46 are 6.5" wide with 42mm offset which I guess is, as you suggested earlier to stop them looking too weedy!
I couldn't find any e46 (non-M / staggered!) wheels listed with lower tha 42mm offset.
Hang on... You've just confirmed that they vary from 42 to 47mm, but at the same time still trying to argue your original point about all offsets being the same!Style 42 and 46 are 6.5" wide with 42mm offset which I guess is, as you suggested earlier to stop them looking too weedy!
I couldn't find any e46 (non-M / staggered!) wheels listed with lower tha 42mm offset.
The OP originally asked what the two figures stood for, so although unintentionally, you've seemingly answered his question.
Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
Miner49er said:
Hang on... You've just confirmed that they vary from 42 to 47mm, but at the same time still trying to argue your original point about all offsets being the same!
Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
I agreed that there are exceptions at the extreme of the width range, but 2 out of 36 does not constitute "nearly all cases". I excluded the staggered setup because the m-sport suspension geometry is different. Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Hang on... You've just confirmed that they vary from 42 to 47mm, but at the same time still trying to argue your original point about all offsets being the same!
Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
I agreed that there are exceptions at the extreme of the width range, but 2 out of 36 does not constitute "nearly all cases". I excluded the staggered setup because the m-sport suspension geometry is different. Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
In “nearly all cases” the difference between 35mm and 42mm will be due to variations in wheel width, not geometry.
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Hang on... You've just confirmed that they vary from 42 to 47mm, but at the same time still trying to argue your original point about all offsets being the same!
Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
I agreed that there are exceptions at the extreme of the width range, but 2 out of 36 does not constitute "nearly all cases". I excluded the staggered setup because the m-sport suspension geometry is different. Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
In “nearly all cases” the difference between 35mm and 42mm will be due to variations in wheel width, not geometry.
You said "Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets...". For a given fitment (ie suspension geometry) in the case of the e46 this clearly isn't true - 3 out of the 4 widths for the basic e46 geometry have the same offset, there is only one exception. So if the OP is changing wheels, rather than assuming any change in offset is just due to width difference (which is the implication of your statement), he should investigate further. If there is an offset difference then as likely as not the wheel is for a different fitment.
Regarding your statement about extremes "In “nearly all cases” the difference between 35mm and 42mm will be due to variations in wheel width, not geometry implies that you could get OEM fitment swapping a 35mm wheel for a 42mm; but the 35mm offset is for the basic setup on 6.5" wheels, and the 42mm is for the staggered geometry! Also, saying "the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car" also doesn't really hold because the widest e46 wheels have a 20mm offset, the narrowest have 35, and the ones in the middle have 47....
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Hang on... You've just confirmed that they vary from 42 to 47mm, but at the same time still trying to argue your original point about all offsets being the same!
Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
I agreed that there are exceptions at the extreme of the width range, but 2 out of 36 does not constitute "nearly all cases". I excluded the staggered setup because the m-sport suspension geometry is different. Whilst you conveniently chose to ignore staggered wheel fitments in order to make your argument stand up, the figures quoted online and those the OP was sourcing would include them. All the wider wheels on staggered fitments have a different offset.
As much as you may not like it, my original point still stands - the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car.
In “nearly all cases” the difference between 35mm and 42mm will be due to variations in wheel width, not geometry.
You said "Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets...". For a given fitment (ie suspension geometry) in the case of the e46 this clearly isn't true - 3 out of the 4 widths for the basic e46 geometry have the same offset, there is only one exception. So if the OP is changing wheels, rather than assuming any change in offset is just due to width difference (which is the implication of your statement), he should investigate further. If there is an offset difference then as likely as not the wheel is for a different fitment.
Regarding your statement about extremes "In “nearly all cases” the difference between 35mm and 42mm will be due to variations in wheel width, not geometry implies that you could get OEM fitment swapping a 35mm wheel for a 42mm; but the 35mm offset is for the basic setup on 6.5" wheels, and the 42mm is for the staggered geometry! Also, saying "the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car" also doesn't really hold because the widest e46 wheels have a 20mm offset, the narrowest have 35, and the ones in the middle have 47....
You are aware he's talking about an MR2 though right?
So I had a quick look at this MR2 site here:
http://www.mr2oc.co.uk/forums/59/41923.html
Every single example where two different offsets are stated, they always apply to two
different wheel widths.
Miner49er said:
Every single example where two different offsets are stated, they always apply to two
different wheel widths.
I'm not at all surprised; the OEM wouldn't change the offset unless they needed to. But always having a width change when you have an offset change is not the same as always having an offset change when you have a width change!different wheel widths.
Miner49er said:
LOL I just checked that website, and all the listed options are aftermarket not OEM- so it's more a case of what wheels are available and will they physically fit, rather than will the suspension geometry be correct...(which was my original point back on page 1!)Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Every single example where two different offsets are stated, they always apply to two
different wheel widths.
I'm not at all surprised; the OEM wouldn't change the offset unless they needed to. But always having a width change when you have an offset change is not the same as always having an offset change when you have a width change!different wheel widths.
You can bleat on about how offsets don't determine wheel width or vice versa, but the reality is, the lowest and highest numbers in any given offset range never, ever apply to same-width wheels.
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
LOL I just checked that website, and all the listed options are aftermarket not OEM- so it's more a case of what wheels are available and will they physically fit, rather than will the suspension geometry be correct...(which was my original point back on page 1!)Go back to page 1 and scroll right to the top. Post 1 resides there. Then pay attention to subsequent posts made by the OP...
He asked about a specific car and specific offsets. Geometry has no bearing on anything he's asking, as that's already been accounted for in the actual car and the actual offset range.
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Every single example where two different offsets are stated, they always apply to two
different wheel widths.
I'm not at all surprised; the OEM wouldn't change the offset unless they needed to. But always having a width change when you have an offset change is not the same as always having an offset change when you have a width change!different wheel widths.
You can bleat on about how offsets don't determine wheel width or vice versa, but the reality is, the lowest and highest numbers in any given offset range never, ever apply to same-width wheels.
"Bottom of the range cars tend to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"but they do Range from 36mm." (responding to a comment about OEM 7" wide wheels on an e46)
"the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
For each of those statement you have made, in response to my comments, I have provided evidence to substantiate my opinion and, to put it bluntly, disprove yours...and yet you're still trying to argue?
Edited by Mave on Friday 24th October 23:52
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
LOL I just checked that website, and all the listed options are aftermarket not OEM- so it's more a case of what wheels are available and will they physically fit, rather than will the suspension geometry be correct...(which was my original point back on page 1!)Go back to page 1 and scroll right to the top. Post 1 resides there. Then pay attention to subsequent posts made by the OP...
He asked about a specific car and specific offsets. Geometry has no bearing on anything he's asking, as that's already been accounted for in the actual car and the actual offset range.
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Every single example where two different offsets are stated, they always apply to two
different wheel widths.
I'm not at all surprised; the OEM wouldn't change the offset unless they needed to. But always having a width change when you have an offset change is not the same as always having an offset change when you have a width change!different wheel widths.
You can bleat on about how offsets don't determine wheel width or vice versa, but the reality is, the lowest and highest numbers in any given offset range never, ever apply to same-width wheels.
"Bottom of the range cars tend to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"but they do Range from 36mm." (responding to a comment about OEM 7" wide wheels on an e46)
"the two numbers stated is generally the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in nearly all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
For each of those statement you have made, in response to my comments, I have provided evidence to substantiate my opinion and, to put it bluntly, disprove yours...and yet you're still trying to argue?
Edited by Mave on Friday 24th October 23:52
"Bottom of the range cars 'TEND' to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"the two numbers stated is 'GENERALLY' the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in 'NEARLY' all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
LOL I just checked that website, and all the listed options are aftermarket not OEM- so it's more a case of what wheels are available and will they physically fit, rather than will the suspension geometry be correct...(which was my original point back on page 1!)Go back to page 1 and scroll right to the top. Post 1 resides there. Then pay attention to subsequent posts made by the OP...
He asked about a specific car and specific offsets. Geometry has no bearing on anything he's asking, as that's already been accounted for in the actual car and the actual offset range.
Let us know when you revisit post number 1.
Miner49er said:
To assist, I've highlighted the key words you seem to be ignoring...
"Bottom of the range cars 'TEND' to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"the two numbers stated is 'GENERALLY' the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in 'NEARLY' all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
And in the examples I quoted (e46 because I happened to be looking at wheel swaps, but I've seen the same thing with audis and Ford's) those statements are wrong. Conversely you haven't provided a single example to show that your statements are ever correct, let alone NEARLY ALWAYS or GENERALLY correct! ;-)"Bottom of the range cars 'TEND' to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"the two numbers stated is 'GENERALLY' the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in 'NEARLY' all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
Edited by Mave on Saturday 25th October 10:14
Miner49er said:
Very interesting that.
Let us know when you revisit post number 1.
Yes, and his subsequent posts where he's taking about changing the offset by 10mm on a car which is notorious for being sensitive to track changes. Remind us again why you think you can change the offset without affecting the suspension geometry?Let us know when you revisit post number 1.
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
Very interesting that.
Let us know when you revisit post number 1.
Yes, and his subsequent posts where he's taking about changing the offset by 10mm on a car which is notorious for being sensitive to track changes. Remind us again why you think you can change the offset without affecting the suspension geometry?Let us know when you revisit post number 1.
Actually, it's coming back to me now... I was mid-nodding off whilst reading another one of your interesting posts.
Mave said:
Miner49er said:
To assist, I've highlighted the key words you seem to be ignoring...
"Bottom of the range cars 'TEND' to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"the two numbers stated is 'GENERALLY' the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in 'NEARLY' all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
And in the examples I quoted (e46 because I happened to be looking at wheel swaps, but I've seen the same thing with audis and Ford's) those statements are wrong. Conversely you haven't provided a single example to show that your statements are ever correct, let alone NEARLY ALWAYS or GENERALLY correct! ;-)"Bottom of the range cars 'TEND' to have wheels with greater offsets than their sportier counterparts."
"the two numbers stated is 'GENERALLY' the difference between the widest and thinnest OE wheels available for that model of car."
"Offsets are measured to the centreline of the wheel, so in 'NEARLY' all cases, different width wheels naturally have different offsets..."
Edited by Mave on Saturday 25th October 10:14
Insignia
8x19 ET46
8x18 ET46
7.5x18 ET42
7x17ET44
7x17 ET42
Astra
8.5x20 ET45
8x18 ET42
7x17 ET41
All my comments above apply.
I'm really bored of this now.
Good luck OP!!
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