Replacing Flat roof, told insulation upgrade needed

Replacing Flat roof, told insulation upgrade needed

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Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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Had a quote to replace a flat roof and was told that it needs to have 130mm of insulation added. As this is effectively just replacing what is already there can someone explain why the insulation is needed.

I understand adding insulation is good but it appears the flat roof cannot be replaced without doing the insulation work and I would like to understand what is driving this.

Any help appreciated.

505diff

507 posts

242 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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It's building regs, after all this is an ideal (or the only) time to do it, which is well worth the cost, making it cooler in summer and warmer in winter, you will soon recoup the extra cost in energy savings.

roofer

5,136 posts

210 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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What's on/in at the minute ?

V8RX7

26,765 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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If you do it without involving building regs, you can do what you like.

The pay back for current insulation levels is ridiculous and when you sell no one cares.

B17NNS

18,506 posts

246 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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As aboce, building regs. If you don't want the additional work, expense and associated benefits you can 'repair' the roof by laying an additional layer. Repairs are not notifiable and no additional insulation need be added...

Roof repairs

Flat roof being re-covered. As of the 15 July 2010 the definition of 'renovation' in regulation 2(1) of the Building Regulations 2010 has been amended. This means for example, that the repair of a flat roof by the addition of an additional layer to the existing roof by the laying of a liquid sealant to the roof surface or a new layer of felt will no longer fall within the definition of 'building work' in regulation 3(1) of the Building Regulations as it is a repair not a renovation and as such will no longer be notifiable building work.

Please note that this change does not affect the current position in relation to pitched roofs or where flat roofs are altered by the removal and replacement of a layer or layers.

However where a roof is altered by the removal and replacement of at least 25 per cent of a layer or layers this work is considered to be a renovation and is therefore classed as building work which remains notifiable and requires a Building Regulations application to be deposited unless your chosen contractor is registered with Competent Roofer the competent person scheme for roofing works in which case you will not need to apply for permission from Building Control as the installer will notify their competent person scheme provider, who will in turn notify us.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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I suppose if you're bloody minded and can say that it wasn't planned then you could replace 20% at a time in five goes.

JimM169

392 posts

121 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
Surely it depends on what the roof is over, eg can't see much point in insulating a roof on an unheated garage ?




ndg

560 posts

236 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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JimM169 said:
herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
Surely it depends on what the roof is over, eg can't see much point in insulating a roof on an unheated garage ?
I think I would!hehe

V8RX7

26,765 posts

262 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
Depends how long you're living there.

I'm currently selling my house that I built last year - massively insulated, A rated glass - EPC B

NO ONE CARES

I can't get any kind of premium compared to the surrounding EPC D-F homes that would cost circa £20k to get to a similar level.

TA14

12,722 posts

257 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
I'm currently selling my house that I built last year - massively insulated, A rated glass - EPC B

NO ONE CARES

I can't get any kind of premium compared to the surrounding EPC D-F homes that would cost circa £20k to get to a similar level.
I suppose you need one of the 'Grand Design' types who would otherwise be willing to spend a lot building 'an ecohome' or whatever they're called.

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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V8RX7 said:
herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
Depends how long you're living there.

I'm currently selling my house that I built last year - massively insulated, A rated glass - EPC B

NO ONE CARES

I can't get any kind of premium compared to the surrounding EPC D-F homes that would cost circa £20k to get to a similar level.
Yes I know that no one cares, I see it everyday on this forum. That's why we have building regulations.
Just out of interest was that insulated to meet building regs. or insulated to better than building regs.?

Mr GrimNasty

8,172 posts

169 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Why should we have building regs. that only serve a fraudulent political agenda? You think people should be forced to comply!

herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Mr GrimNasty said:
Why should we have building regs. that only serve a fraudulent political agenda? You think people should be forced to comply!
If not enforceable they would be called guidelines.

V8RX7

26,765 posts

262 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
herewego said:
Yes I know that no one cares, I see it everyday on this forum.

That's why we have building regulations.

Just out of interest was that insulated to meet building regs. or insulated to better than building regs.?
Do you think this forum is indicative of the general population ?

If everyone cared - why would we have Regulations ?

As the EPC takes the Air Test into account and you don't know the result of the Air Test until the end of the build, in hindsight with my result of 3, I could have reduced certain elements - like the A rated glass - however I don't think it would meet the current Regs.

But as no one checks what insulation is installed, nor the window stickers etc I should have lied and got an EPC A rating - but no buyers (well maybe 0.001%) care.


brycheiniog1

116 posts

129 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
I took the opposite view recently. It would have cost me £1500 extra to strip the roof boards, install the insulation and replace all the boarding. My gas bill is ~£600/year, even if the extra insulation knocked 20% off that bill (It won't as it is a tiny proportion of the floor area of the house) it would take far longer than the lifespan of the new roof to pay back.




anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
The roof is a large flat roof covering a loft conversion in a bungalow, from what has been said replacing the whole thing is classed as a renovation and not a repair which means the structure has to be brought up to the latest building regs for insulation.

During the initial conversion probably late 70's the council restricted the flat roof height to be no higher than the peak of the pitched roof so adding the extra insulation would breach this limitation. Apparently the council are okay with breaking the height limit to get the insulation in there.

As it turns out the leak that prompted the replacement quote was actually a loose flashing on the chimney which was fixed for £80 and he even fixed the front wall which someone had knocked over, top bloke.

Thanks to ph for answering the query :-)


herewego

8,814 posts

212 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
brycheiniog1 said:
herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
I took the opposite view recently. It would have cost me £1500 extra to strip the roof boards, install the insulation and replace all the boarding. My gas bill is ~£600/year, even if the extra insulation knocked 20% off that bill (It won't as it is a tiny proportion of the floor area of the house) it would take far longer than the lifespan of the new roof to pay back.
I'm not sure that the lifespan of the roof(i.e. the felt) is the right metric. Surely the lifespan of the house is more relevant.

roofer

5,136 posts

210 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
brycheiniog1 said:
herewego said:
It would make absolutely no sense to replace the roof and fail to install as much insulation as you can.
I took the opposite view recently. It would have cost me £1500 extra to strip the roof boards, install the insulation and replace all the boarding. My gas bill is ~£600/year, even if the extra insulation knocked 20% off that bill (It won't as it is a tiny proportion of the floor area of the house) it would take far longer than the lifespan of the new roof to pay back.
120mm of insulation is £30 m2 installed. No need to strip boards unless rotten, existing membranes can act as vapour barrier.