Are Caterham in financial trouble?
Discussion
It's been very sad to watch this all unfold.
I know a lot of lads don't agree with me but I felt (and still do for that matter) that a Caterham running in F1 was a huge benefit for the Marque. OK the car was/is a back marker but for a tiny and newish team what did we expect?
I bet other niche brands would loved to have had an F1 entry to brag about irrespective of where the car finishes.
I hope the new Team owners manage to keep going and turn things around but I now doubt it very much.
For me, and again only my feelings, but what will damage Caterham cars more than a languishing F1 car is what the car division themselves do.
Filling page upon page of magazine and webspace with statements and ramblings about new cars and products that are due next year but then never materialise is far worse in my book. Where are all these cars and bikes that were promised?
As far as I can see the bolting of a supercharger on to an R500 is the only "new" product to hit the shops that I can think of recently.
Another thing was the lack of "togetherness" when cars,composites, F1 Team and the rest were all under the TF umbrella.
It was never fully jelled into one unit.
Small point maybe but an example was F1 Team clothing and regalia.
The only Caterham outlet I could see to buy the complete up to date range was on the F1 site. This meant ordering from Malaysia which put me off buying anything direct and turning to 3rd party Ebay sellers.
Why was this not advertised on Caterham Cars site too?, a missed opportunity I think, especially as their existing range of offerings was very poor.
Sure they did eventually offer the 2012 shirts on the CC site, but only when they were old hat and the F1 site was offering them at half price.......I just didn't get it, it was supposed to be the same outfit!!
Why was 2013 and 2014 clothing not offered either?........they would have sold well.
Small point as I said but an example of a disjointed setup.
As to the future, whatever happens there will always be someone ready to take CC over as a pure car making enterprise, always. There'd be a queue a mile long to buy it.
However the new owners hopefully would ditch the big ideas of having various grand sounding wings of the business like "composites", "Technology" etc and just have CC as a factory producing 7's and 7's only.
None of this "We are introducing an Exigerham" or "an Aero". Stick to 7's guys as the big boys will always batter you.
Remember 21 v Elise?
I know a lot of lads don't agree with me but I felt (and still do for that matter) that a Caterham running in F1 was a huge benefit for the Marque. OK the car was/is a back marker but for a tiny and newish team what did we expect?
I bet other niche brands would loved to have had an F1 entry to brag about irrespective of where the car finishes.
I hope the new Team owners manage to keep going and turn things around but I now doubt it very much.
For me, and again only my feelings, but what will damage Caterham cars more than a languishing F1 car is what the car division themselves do.
Filling page upon page of magazine and webspace with statements and ramblings about new cars and products that are due next year but then never materialise is far worse in my book. Where are all these cars and bikes that were promised?
As far as I can see the bolting of a supercharger on to an R500 is the only "new" product to hit the shops that I can think of recently.
Another thing was the lack of "togetherness" when cars,composites, F1 Team and the rest were all under the TF umbrella.
It was never fully jelled into one unit.
Small point maybe but an example was F1 Team clothing and regalia.
The only Caterham outlet I could see to buy the complete up to date range was on the F1 site. This meant ordering from Malaysia which put me off buying anything direct and turning to 3rd party Ebay sellers.
Why was this not advertised on Caterham Cars site too?, a missed opportunity I think, especially as their existing range of offerings was very poor.
Sure they did eventually offer the 2012 shirts on the CC site, but only when they were old hat and the F1 site was offering them at half price.......I just didn't get it, it was supposed to be the same outfit!!
Why was 2013 and 2014 clothing not offered either?........they would have sold well.
Small point as I said but an example of a disjointed setup.
As to the future, whatever happens there will always be someone ready to take CC over as a pure car making enterprise, always. There'd be a queue a mile long to buy it.
However the new owners hopefully would ditch the big ideas of having various grand sounding wings of the business like "composites", "Technology" etc and just have CC as a factory producing 7's and 7's only.
None of this "We are introducing an Exigerham" or "an Aero". Stick to 7's guys as the big boys will always batter you.
Remember 21 v Elise?
Helluvaname said:
Chrisp5782 said:
AAAARRRGGGHH!!! This is killing - what was the problem?!
Is there anyone out there, not subject to a gag order, who can tell me?
Hi Chris, here's a summary (as I didn't agree to the gagging order!):Is there anyone out there, not subject to a gag order, who can tell me?
Unfortunately I had a thread removed from blatchat in 2008, when I asked if anyone had had problems with paint flaking off their 10-spoke CC wheels. It was removed because several other members said they had also experienced the problem, and a few posted that they would therefore be buying wheels elsewhere.
CC complained to the club Chairman that this was damaging their business and the thread was removed.
I asked CC to replace the wheels, which they declined, and only offered to get them refurbished at my cost, so I decided to take the matter to the small claims court.
CC claimed the flaking paint could have been caused because my car "had been on a track day and could have been in gravel trap"; had been touring overseas so "could have been exposed to salt air and extreme temperatures"; etc!
The night before the case came up Ansar Ali called me to see if I would settle if they refurbished the wheels at their cost; BUT with the conditions that they did not accept liability and that I never spoke to anyone about it in the future.
By that time I had 5 other club members who had written to me stating their wheels had the same problem (and several more on Blatchat).
I said I would accept IF he made the same offer to the other 5 club members.
He declined and the case went to court the next day.
After hearing the evidence, and seeing a wheel, the Judge asked CC if they would consider this "normal wear and tear", and Simon Lambert replied that he "would not be surprised to see this (flaking paint) on wheels that were over 3 years old" (as mine were).
The judge therefore decided that "a reasonable person" could expect the paint to flake off wheels when they were 3 years old, and ruled against me.
I clearly don't agree that this is a reasonable thing to expect, but I'm glad I did what I did, as I have a clear conscience that I tried to help fellow Club members, and didn't take the "offer" to sort mine out, and abandon others in the same position.
Earlier this year I sold on a VW that I had owned from new, it was just 4 years old. All the wheels had significant corrosion, rooted on the back of each rim but creeping towards the front. I spotted this when removing the cars winter tyres when the car was just over three years old and had endured only three winters.
I questioned this with VW but was given the brush off, the car being out of warranty.
So, the new owners of the F1 team say Fernandes has not fulfilled his legal obligations with regards to transferring shares in the F1 team to them, they've had enough of propping it up with their own money and have withdrawn their management team. As far as they are concerned Fernandes still owns the team.
Is not putting Fernandes in a good light.
Is not putting Fernandes in a good light.
REALIST123 said:
Personally, I would expect cared for wheel to last much longer than that, but I am not too surprised they didn't.
Earlier this year I sold on a VW that I had owned from new, it was just 4 years old. All the wheels had significant corrosion, rooted on the back of each rim but creeping towards the front. I spotted this when removing the cars winter tyres when the car was just over three years old and had endured only three winters.
I questioned this with VW but was given the brush off, the car being out of warranty.
Mine are flaking badly too. The car was just over 3 years old when I bought it. "They all do that" apparently. We'll see how my new CXRs cope over the next 3 years. My bet is they don't have anywhere near the same problem. My Megane has done more trackdays then the Caterham, it's 4 years old and the alloys look like new.Earlier this year I sold on a VW that I had owned from new, it was just 4 years old. All the wheels had significant corrosion, rooted on the back of each rim but creeping towards the front. I spotted this when removing the cars winter tyres when the car was just over three years old and had endured only three winters.
I questioned this with VW but was given the brush off, the car being out of warranty.
Edited by framerateuk on Wednesday 22 October 22:13
Chrisp5782 said:
Interesting but I think it highlights that the Caterham Cars we all know and love is safe as a business if not its reputation - that of course could have a detrimental effect in the long run.........only time will tell.
its an interesting read, 'We' know Caterham, possibly many in the UK may know of its root's as the Lotus 7 in those new markets abroad it may only know of it by the F1 association and given the hiding of its original Lotus heritage will affect its brand..............should I get my coat...... 
A press release from Caterham is now saying the terms of the sale were not honoured. IMHO that makes it all a bit more scary as it may be that the sale of the F1 team may never have been completed.
This needs a lot of cash thrown at it, or the consequence for the whole Caterham group may be far reaching.
[edit to add] http://uk.caterhamcars.com/news/caterham-group-sta...
This needs a lot of cash thrown at it, or the consequence for the whole Caterham group may be far reaching.
[edit to add] http://uk.caterhamcars.com/news/caterham-group-sta...
Edited by DCL on Thursday 23 October 16:30
DCL said:
A press release from Caterham is now saying the terms of the sale were not honoured. IMHO that makes it all a bit more scary as it may be that the sale of the F1 team may never have been completed.
This needs a lot of cash thrown at it, or the consequence for the whole Caterham group may be far reaching.
[edit to add] http://uk.caterhamcars.com/news/caterham-group-sta...
Why does it need a lot of cash thrown at it? The F1 team has always been a separate ltd company within the group, they can just let it go to the wall, that's where it's headed.This needs a lot of cash thrown at it, or the consequence for the whole Caterham group may be far reaching.
[edit to add] http://uk.caterhamcars.com/news/caterham-group-sta...
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 23 October 16:30
REALIST123 said:
Why does it need a lot of cash thrown at it? The F1 team has always been a separate ltd company within the group, they can just let it go to the wall, that's where it's headed.
Well, the fact that Caterham Cars Ltd felt the need to post on their website tells a different story. It's same management team that let F1 get to this state. No use saying "it's not my problem gov, I've gave it away it". They have a duty to make sure any deal is sound and do the required due diligence.Every transaction with a Caterham company will be under scrutiny for some time to come unless the F1 company debts are resolved amicably.
More of the situation at the bottom of this page http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/10/battle-betwe...
Looks like Caterham F1 is done for. Bernie says F1 will be better off without them. Odd thing, Bernie, is that most of us feel that way about you.
http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/bernie-ecc...
http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/bernie-ecc...
I think the administrator has just worked out the value is in the licence - racing back on!
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/management-handover...
http://www.f1today.net/en/news/management-handover...
At last! someone who knows what's it's all about!
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/24/caterham-dispute...
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/24/caterham-dispute...
Edited by DCL on Saturday 25th October 11:30
DCL said:
At last! someone who knows what's it's all about!
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/24/caterham-dispute...
That does seem to sum it up. Having just watched Graham McDonald being interviewed on Sky News he comes across as utterly clueless as to the reputational damage done to Caterham brand.http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/24/caterham-dispute...
Edited by DCL on Saturday 25th October 11:30
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