Question about ARC

[daveenty]

First world problem I suppose, but it's now starting to niggle me.

I've just changed TV set, going from a Panasonic TX-L42E6B to a Samsung UE55H6500, and am using the Audio Return Channel to connect it to the amp, which is a Yamaha HTR-4065.

The problem is that when I come to turn the TV off with it's remote everything is fine initially, with both the TV and the amp powering down, but after a few (less than 60) seconds, the amp switches itself back on again briefly, then stays lit, though with "Decoder Off" in the display. It stays in this state for a while, though no idea how long as I've normally fallen asleep by then, but does turn off eventually as it's never on in the morning.

My connections are exactly the same on this set up as with the Panasonic, which are: TV - Amp via HDMI (ARC), Panasonic Blu-Ray (DMP-BD75) and Technomate TM Twin Tuner satellite receiver both connected directly to the amp via their own HDMI cables, Everything works fine with this set up though the input source for Blu-Ray and Sat need to be manually selected via the amp's remote, which I assume is normal.

My main worry is why does the amp not go off and stay off when turning the TV off? Is it safe to leave it like this or is there anything I should be doing, like manually shutting it down? My only thought on it is that the TV is possibly searching for updates on shutdown, therefore putting power through the ARC channel whilst doing so?

Thanks for reading, and sorry if it comes across as a bit vague, though I can't think of a simpler way of describing the issue...

[varsas]

I expect the Amp is switching off because it's not getting a signal so is going to 'sleep', a workround might be to see if you can reduce the 'sleep' timer to something reasonable (15mins?). but I'm sorry, I don't know the actual answer.

I use ARC myself and switching the amp off doesn't turn my display (actually a projector) or vis versa. I didn't know this was possible. I expect it is/was actually using CEC to do this, not ARC?

http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/59877/hdmi-...

[daveenty]

varsas said:

I expect the Amp is switching off because it's not getting a signal so is going to 'sleep', a workround might be to see if you can reduce the 'sleep' timer to something reasonable (15mins?). but I'm sorry, I don't know the actual answer.

I use ARC myself and switching the amp off doesn't turn my display (actually a projector) or vis versa. I didn't know this was possible. I expect it is/was actually using CEC to do this, not ARC?

http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/59877/hdmi-...

Thanks, but it's definitely the ARC which is the controller here.

It's doing exactly what it should be doing, which is turning the amp off (or placing it into stand-by) when I switch the TV off (and vice-versa) but the amp is then turning itself back on again.

Having said that, it's behaved itself tonight and when I turned the TV off the amp went off and hasn't come back on again so far after at least 15 minutes so all is looking good. Frustrating. Like an intermittent fault on a car...

[probedb]

daveenty said:

Thanks, but it's definitely the ARC which is the controller here.

It's doing exactly what it should be doing, which is turning the amp off (or placing it into stand-by) when I switch the TV off (and vice-versa) but the amp is then turning itself back on again.

Having said that, it's behaved itself tonight and when I turned the TV off the amp went off and hasn't come back on again so far after at least 15 minutes so all is looking good. Frustrating. Like an intermittent fault on a car...

It may sound silly but have you double checked the connections and unplugged/plugged them back in? It sounds like the amp is getting a spurious signal.

ARC is just audio return channel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#ARC_and_HEC) and nothing to do with the control signals, the control stuff for on/off etc is CEC or whatever the manufacturer decides to call it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC

[NorthDave]

Do you have any kind of IR control installed? I'm wondering if the TV is sending power off via CEC (which works) and then something else is sending the ir power toggle (which then switches it on as it is already off).

Might not apply in your case but just thought I would check. If you are just using the TV remote to switch off then it shouldn't be doing anything extra.

Edited to add you probably only have one ARC compatible HDMI input so the issue must be coming from the TV itself?

[daveenty]

Hi guys and thanks for the input.

Apologies for my ignorance on the CEC thing, but never heard of it till varsas' post so have now done a bit of reading up on it.

The frustrating thing is that it's been fine for the last couple of nights, though it's now started to knock the power off to the satellite decoder at random times, usually when watching in bed, so another issue possibly?

The set up is as previously posted, though I forgot to mention that the aerial is connected via the sat box to an Omni-Link through to another TV in the bedroom. The Omni-Link is like the Sky magic eye thing (don't have Sky), allowing me to use the sat remote through the aerial.

I'm going to try various combinations of how I switch things on and off to eliminate possible causes. The last couple of times I've turned the main TV off before turning the bedroom one on, though possibly the other way round when it was switching the decoder back on. Does this sound feasible?

[varsas]

Definalty worth eliminating the magic eye thing, just in case that is the issue. I think I'd be a bit surprised, but it's not impossible it's causing an issue and is an easy thing to try just to see if that does resolve it.

[eatontrifles]

FWIW I recently upgraded from a Samsung screen to a Panasonic and all my ARC/HDMI (to a Yamaha amp) control problems were resolved. Turning the screen on turns the amp on, turning the screen off switches the amp off. Switching the TV to a non-HDMI (Youtube, built in tuner etc) input and the ARC actually works. It never worked on the Samsung.

[daveenty]

varsas said:

Definalty worth eliminating the magic eye thing, just in case that is the issue. I think I'd be a bit surprised, but it's not impossible it's causing an issue and is an easy thing to try just to see if that does resolve it.

The problem with this of course, is that it's needed as I can't use the sat decoder on the other TV without it.

eatontrifles said:

FWIW I recently upgraded from a Samsung screen to a Panasonic and all my ARC/HDMI (to a Yamaha amp) control problems were resolved. Turning the screen on turns the amp on, turning the screen off switches the amp off. Switching the TV to a non-HDMI (Youtube, built in tuner etc) input and the ARC actually works. It never worked on the Samsung.

I wish I'd stuck with Panasonic now instead of going with Samsung, which was my original intention. Trawling round the web the last couple of days it seems that Samsung do have issues connecting to other peoples equipment, as their version of CEC is not necessarily the same as everyone else's. Apparently this will be brought to task when HDMI2 is implemented, though is still a bit hit and miss at the moment. This is only what I've been reading, so apologies if it's wrong, but I'm certainly not the only one to have problems with Samsung and Yamaha not playing nicely.

I'm going to rip the lot out this weekend and start again with the wiring, just plugging things in one at a time and swapping a couple of cables around to see if I can get it to run the way I want it, and not the way it wants to do things.

[aquarianone]

An alternative roundabout suggestion...get an Xbox!

It'll control all your kit with a single voice command.

I can walk in the house and say Xbox on and it it'll turn on the tv, switches on the Sky box and switch on the amp..and same in reverse, Xbox off, powers it all off..!

My Pronto's not going much of a look in at the moment