Car on tow - who is responsible?

Car on tow - who is responsible?

Author
Discussion

MagneticMeerkat

Original Poster:

1,763 posts

204 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
Hey,

I had my car towed home the other day! Well what do you expect with something that old. Anyway it was towed home by a van using a solid bar attachment. I sat in it and steered.

So say the van exceeded the speed limit, or committed some other violation, would I be in any way liable? I'd assume not, as I was essentially a passenger at the time. I didn't have any control over the van and couldn't influence its actions. My car was fine, legally, however I suppose if it wasn't insured or something the van driver could have got in trouble?

Nothing illegal happened, just a 'what if?' question.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 20th October 2014
quotequote all
If any of the towed car's wheels are touching the ground, then it's counted as an emergency recovery, legally. Very restricted speed limit, and intended only for short distance recovery. The towed car has to be fully legal, and both drivers would be legally responsible.

For the towed car to count as a trailer, it has to be <750kg GVW (which rules out all bar the very tiniest) or all the wheels on the ground have to be braked by the towing car, and nobody can be in it.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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The car being towed does not have to be insured, as the towing vehicle's policy will automatically provide third party cover for any vehicle it is towing.

godskitchen

131 posts

146 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
The car being towed does not have to be insured, as the towing vehicle's policy will automatically provide third party cover for any vehicle it is towing.
Not true.

I know someone that got a ban for no insurance while in charge of a car being towed.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The car being towed does not have to be insured, as the towing vehicle's policy will automatically provide third party cover for any vehicle it is towing.
Wrong on SO many levels.

Mr Taxpayer

438 posts

119 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
MagneticMeerkat said:
Hey,

I had my car towed home the other day! Well what do you expect with something that old. Anyway it was towed home by a van using a solid bar attachment. I sat in it and steered.

So say the van exceeded the speed limit, or committed some other violation, would I be in any way liable? I'd assume not, as I was essentially a passenger at the time. I didn't have any control over the van and couldn't influence its actions. My car was fine, legally, however I suppose if it wasn't insured or something the van driver could have got in trouble?

Nothing illegal happened, just a 'what if?' question.
You can't be responsible for speeding, because you're not controlling the speed of the combo. Similar for redlight offences.

Unless being towed to a place of repair, the requirement for VED, MOT and insurance would still apply, or else how are you on the road in the first place?

As for towing vehicle covering insurance, that would depend upon your policy wording. Price comparison sites have lead to insurance companies stripping out a lot of the 'free extras' that many of us take for granted, such as driving another vehicle not owned or hired to your third party only.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The car being towed does not have to be insured, as the towing vehicle's policy will automatically provide third party cover for any vehicle it is towing.
Wrong on SO many levels.
Read your own policy. It will have an extension giving third party cover whilst attached to anything being towed. By law all UK motor policies have to provide it.

Adrian E

3,248 posts

175 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Am pretty sure if you are being towed and you would in effect be classed as a trailer, you ought to have a light bar and number plate for the towing vehicle displayed on the back of yours? Then any ticket would go to the owner of the towing vehicle

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Mr Taxpayer said:
As for towing vehicle covering insurance, that would depend upon your policy wording. Price comparison sites have lead to insurance companies stripping out a lot of the 'free extras' that many of us take for granted, such as driving another vehicle not owned or hired to your third party only.
They can't strip out something that they have to provide by law.

rewc

2,187 posts

232 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Under the Third Party Liability section of my policy its says "Any trailer while it is being towed by your vehicle"

It has some exclusions to this cover, one of them being "A mechanically propelled vehicle".

I guess the devil is in the detail.


shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
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Adrian E said:
Am pretty sure if you are being towed and you would in effect be classed as a trailer, you ought to have a light bar and number plate for the towing vehicle displayed on the back of yours? Then any ticket would go to the owner of the towing vehicle
Only classed as a trailer if on a dolly that controls the steering on the towed vehicle, and then you'd fall foul of Towing regulations since the towed vehicle would almost certainly be over the 750Kg weight limit that requires it to be braked (and no, your foot on the pedal of the towed car doesn't count).

grumpyscot

1,277 posts

191 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Mr Taxpayer said:
You can't be responsible for speeding, because you're not controlling the speed of the combo.
But if you're being towed, then your brakes must still be working. So you apply your brakes to let the guy in front realise he's going too fast. Simples!

And if your brakes ain't working, then you should not be towed.

Mr Taxpayer

438 posts

119 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Taking several points in turn...
Does the 'legal extension of third party cover' sit on the policy of the towed vehicle or the towing vehicle? Your post could be interpretted either way.

You can tow a vehicle with not fuctioning brakes on a straight bar. The brake failure could be the reason it is on tow in the first place.

Plenty of stuff here http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/general-advic...

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Mr Taxpayer said:
You can tow a vehicle with not fuctioning brakes on a straight bar. The brake failure could be the reason it is on tow in the first place.
As far as i'm aware that only applies to vehicles under 750kg (hardly any)
If over 750kg, it's classed as a car and not a trailer and is subject to the same rules and regulations as any other car. MOT, tax, insurance, road worthy etc.

The car towing the broken down car must also be suitable. Eg is listed as safe to tow x weight of other vehicle

tehguy

178 posts

130 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
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Someone should make a sticky because these threads keep coming up and everyone just provides wrong information or stories they've heard from their mate down the pub.

Towing a vehicle with a rope or bar is meant for short distance emergency recovery ONLY. I believe the wording is "away from a place of danger". So if you were broken down on the side of an NSL dual carriageway (no hard shoulder), someone could LEGALLY use a rope to tow you at low speed to the next exit and away from the high speed road. Towing a car 10 miles across a city is not allowed, but I'm sure we've all done it.

If you're towing a vehicle with a rope or a bar then it IS classed as a trailer, however it is not legal for the following reasons:

Maximum gross weight over 750kg requires brakes which operate automatically when the towing vehicle brakes. Your mate stepping on the brakes when he sees you braking is not good enough - not only is the reaction time not as fast as legislation stipulates, but without the brake servo running you almost certainly can't get the required amount of braking force unless you have a very strong leg;

You need lights which are operated by the towing vehicle and a matching number plate;

Nobody can ride in the trailer (towed vehicle).

Also remember that drivers without category BE are restricted on the maximum gross weight of any trailer they tow, and towing a car would almost certainly put them well over that limit. There is an exemption clause which allowed those without BE to tow a car with a rope or bar only to a place of safety.

So to answer the original question, I'd say both of you are responsible as you are both playing a part in something which is technically illegal.

rewc

2,187 posts

232 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
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tehguy said:
Also remember that drivers without category BE are restricted on the maximum gross weight of any trailer they tow, and towing a car would almost certainly put them well over that limit.
There are plenty of two cars combinations where the sum of their GVW's is less than 3500kg.

shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
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rewc said:
tehguy said:
Also remember that drivers without category BE are restricted on the maximum gross weight of any trailer they tow, and towing a car would almost certainly put them well over that limit.
There are plenty of two cars combinations where the sum of their GVW's is less than 3500kg.
True, however a trailer over 750kg the trailer needs to be braked, which a car won't be.

tehguy

178 posts

130 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
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rewc said:
There are plenty of two cars combinations where the sum of their GVW's is less than 3500kg.
Irrelevant - if the car being towed has a gross weight over 750kg it must have brakes to the specification that I detailed above.

Some very old, very small light cars may fall under this, in which case they could be towed legally with a bar or some sort of rudimentary A frame.

Look at something like Smart-tow, it allows you to tow a small car behind things like motorhomes, using an air supply from the brake servo on the towing vehicle to supply the brake servo on the towed car, and an actuator which physically pushes the brake pedal in the towed car when you apply the brakes in the towing vehicle.

un1corn

2,143 posts

136 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
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Just because you tow a car, it doesn't magically make it a trailer.


shakotan

10,679 posts

195 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
un1corn said:
Just because you tow a car, it doesn't magically make it a trailer.
In the eyes of the Law it does.