Koenigsegg - any feedback?

Koenigsegg - any feedback?

Author
Discussion

gregf40

Original Poster:

1,114 posts

115 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
I've recently developed an urge to explore the world of Koenigsegg...something like the CCX or CCR.

Does anyone on here own one? Any owner feedback/experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Also, anyone know what prices these are actually selling for? I've seen a handful for sale and all seem to have been for sale for eternity.

Cheers!

WCZ

10,492 posts

193 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
iirc shoebag had one for awhile

mr_tony

6,328 posts

268 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Supervettura in sunningdale seem to have shoebags old dar (Kermit) for sale and also the white / carbon car. Both been around for some time on the market I would think.

mr_tony

6,328 posts

268 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
mr_tony said:
Supervettura in sunningdale seem to have shoebags old car (Kermit) for sale and also the white / carbon car. Both been around for some time on the market I would think.

BelfastBoy

779 posts

159 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
No personal experience but have participated in various discussions about them over the years on PH. From memory, this was the general consensus (anyone else feel free to add or correct):

- Early cars had isolated reliability issues that were swiftly rectified, but there's still a lingering stigma over the marque as a whole.
- Near-exact contemporary Pagani swiftly ascended to the supercar top table, but Koenigsegg have never quite made it. So any Koenigsegg bought new is likely to lose you money overall when you try to sell it on. (Some of the cars in the PH classifieds have been there quite some time, and the 'Shoebag' car never seems to stay with an owner very long before going back on the market again.)
- Koenigsegg are prone to making impressive claims about their vehicle performance that, to my knowledge, are rarely supported with independent testing. For example, the Agera is said to be capable of 273mph - let's see it then!
- Are the cars any good? I'm sure they are, but I think the problem the marque faces is that potential owners tend to look to more obvious rivals first. Even 'regular' models like the F12 and Aventador are offering hypercar performance for, relatively speaking, a lot less money. A Koenigsegg used to feature highly on my Euromillions fantasy list but if I had the money now, I probably wouldn't bother.

Just my thoughts though, and I'd reiterate that I've no personal experience of actually driving a Koenigsegg.

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
The guys over at www.supervettura.com are probably your best bet as they always have a few for sale, Tommy Wareham is the man to speak too. But you are right they do appear to be rather sticky on show room floors, why I am not sure but I have my own theories

TWareham

116 posts

206 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Hi Greg,

I have been the Koenigsegg dealer in the UK for around 8 years so know the cars very well and as mentioned above the cars have seen some changes over the years.

I know all of the cars in the UK and if you do end up wanting one we can find the right one for you.

If you want to come down to the showroom and have a look at a couple of different models and learn a bit more about the brand I would be happy to show you around the cars and answer any questions you might have.

With regards them sticking to the showroom floor - the green car (ex-Shoebag) has been sold and returned to the market as the guy enjoyed it so much he ordered a new car the advertisement was never taken down so seems like a long period of time it has been advertised for. The white car is our demonstrator car which we are quite happy to sit on so have sold cars from it rather than selling it itself. Much like a lot of these high end specialist vehicles most cars are sold before they even get advertised. This year, thus far we have sold 4 used Koenigsegg and 4 (almost 5 just give me a couple of weeks!) new Koenigsegg. With regards the used cars we have returned the people we have bought the car from a profit over and above what they initially purchased the car for.

Values had suffered on Koenigsegg during the recession however having identified this as a problem we have actively invested in buying cars and upgrading them to later specifications with the help of the Koenigsegg Factory. This seems to be working and these cars seem to be selling well.

I could waffle on here all day, if you would like to come down for a coffee feel free it would be great to meet you and show you around some cars.

Tom

Tommy.Wareham@SuperVettura.com

ilovevolvo

1,832 posts

223 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
TWareham said:
Hi Greg,

I have been the Koenigsegg dealer in the UK for around 8 years so know the cars very well and as mentioned above the cars have seen some changes over the years.

I know all of the cars in the UK and if you do end up wanting one we can find the right one for you.

If you want to come down to the showroom and have a look at a couple of different models and learn a bit more about the brand I would be happy to show you around the cars and answer any questions you might have.

With regards them sticking to the showroom floor - the green car (ex-Shoebag) has been sold and returned to the market as the guy enjoyed it so much he ordered a new car the advertisement was never taken down so seems like a long period of time it has been advertised for. The white car is our demonstrator car which we are quite happy to sit on so have sold cars from it rather than selling it itself. Much like a lot of these high end specialist vehicles most cars are sold before they even get advertised. This year, thus far we have sold 4 used Koenigsegg and 4 (almost 5 just give me a couple of weeks!) new Koenigsegg. With regards the used cars we have returned the people we have bought the car from a profit over and above what they initially purchased the car for.

Values had suffered on Koenigsegg during the recession however having identified this as a problem we have actively invested in buying cars and upgrading them to later specifications with the help of the Koenigsegg Factory. This seems to be working and these cars seem to be selling well.

I could waffle on here all day, if you would like to come down for a coffee feel free it would be great to meet you and show you around some cars.

Tom

Tommy.Wareham@SuperVettura.com
Hi Tom

While your on here have you sold the Bugatti Veyron ?

Russ

TWareham

116 posts

206 months

Tuesday 21st October 2014
quotequote all
Hi Russ,

Not yet - we have had the wrap taken off it though! looks somewhat better...

Showing it to someone in the next week or so, be nice to move it on before year end but in no rush they seem to be heading in the right direction.


ZNSsupercars

976 posts

113 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Before you buy one, think. As they are very low to the ground they struggle with potholes, speedhumps ect, and is it practical? Koenigseggs are very wide. If you dont have potholes and speedhumps near you then i say go for it! Also the engines are reliable, it will also turn many,many heads in your local town!
Cheers.

jontysafe

2,351 posts

177 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
TWareham said:
Hi Greg,

I have been the Koenigsegg dealer in the UK for around 8 years so know the cars very well and as mentioned above the cars have seen some changes over the years.

I know all of the cars in the UK and if you do end up wanting one we can find the right one for you.

If you want to come down to the showroom and have a look at a couple of different models and learn a bit more about the brand I would be happy to show you around the cars and answer any questions you might have.

With regards them sticking to the showroom floor - the green car (ex-Shoebag) has been sold and returned to the market as the guy enjoyed it so much he ordered a new car the advertisement was never taken down so seems like a long period of time it has been advertised for. The white car is our demonstrator car which we are quite happy to sit on so have sold cars from it rather than selling it itself. Much like a lot of these high end specialist vehicles most cars are sold before they even get advertised. This year, thus far we have sold 4 used Koenigsegg and 4 (almost 5 just give me a couple of weeks!) new Koenigsegg. With regards the used cars we have returned the people we have bought the car from a profit over and above what they initially purchased the car for.

Values had suffered on Koenigsegg during the recession however having identified this as a problem we have actively invested in buying cars and upgrading them to later specifications with the help of the Koenigsegg Factory. This seems to be working and these cars seem to be selling well.

I could waffle on here all day, if you would like to come down for a coffee feel free it would be great to meet you and show you around some cars.

Tom

Tommy.Wareham@SuperVettura.com
What a fantastic response, why can't more dealers be like this?

BelfastBoy

779 posts

159 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Two other things in any Koenigsegg's favour:

- The doors are an engineering masterpiece, and I imagine in a real world car parking situation, allow easier access than would normally be the case with a hypercar.
- Koenigsegg's solution to the coupe / roadster dilemma is perhaps the most elegant there is. The panel not only comes off incredibly easily, but can also be safely and securely stowed in the car. Rival vehicles with a roadster option certainly aren't as user friendly!

TWareham

116 posts

206 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
ZNSsupercars said:
Before you buy one, think. As they are very low to the ground they struggle with potholes, speedhumps ect, and is it practical? Koenigseggs are very wide. If you dont have potholes and speedhumps near you then i say go for it! Also the engines are reliable, it will also turn many,many heads in your local town!
Cheers.
Actually there is no problem with pot holes or speed humps, the Koenigsegg has a very compliant suspension setup for day to day driving. It is no harder a ride than that of say a 458 Ferrari. It handles not particularly well maintained roads with as much comfort as you would hope from a Supercar. As for speed humps, difficult garage entrances etc... The Koenigsegg has as standard a lifting system which has on more than one instance allowed me to mount a pavements kerb to aid parking, clearance is very good and the overhang low at the front which helps.

It will certainly turn heads though thats for sure..!

- T

ps. Thanks Jonty, we have nothing to hide here. Koenigsegg has not been the easiest brand to move over the last few years but we have worked at it and with the help of the factory and the updated tech we have put into the cars it really has turned around, we are having a bonzer year with Koenigsegg and it does not seem to be slowing down for 2015. I see a very positive future for this brand moving forwards...

wessexrfc

4,326 posts

185 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
jontysafe said:
TWareham said:
Hi Greg,

I have been the Koenigsegg dealer in the UK for around 8 years so know the cars very well and as mentioned above the cars have seen some changes over the years.

I know all of the cars in the UK and if you do end up wanting one we can find the right one for you.

If you want to come down to the showroom and have a look at a couple of different models and learn a bit more about the brand I would be happy to show you around the cars and answer any questions you might have.

With regards them sticking to the showroom floor - the green car (ex-Shoebag) has been sold and returned to the market as the guy enjoyed it so much he ordered a new car the advertisement was never taken down so seems like a long period of time it has been advertised for. The white car is our demonstrator car which we are quite happy to sit on so have sold cars from it rather than selling it itself. Much like a lot of these high end specialist vehicles most cars are sold before they even get advertised. This year, thus far we have sold 4 used Koenigsegg and 4 (almost 5 just give me a couple of weeks!) new Koenigsegg. With regards the used cars we have returned the people we have bought the car from a profit over and above what they initially purchased the car for.

Values had suffered on Koenigsegg during the recession however having identified this as a problem we have actively invested in buying cars and upgrading them to later specifications with the help of the Koenigsegg Factory. This seems to be working and these cars seem to be selling well.

I could waffle on here all day, if you would like to come down for a coffee feel free it would be great to meet you and show you around some cars.

Tom

Tommy.Wareham@SuperVettura.com
What a fantastic response, why can't more dealers be like this?
thumbup just what I was thinking, top work Mr Wareham smile

lamboman100

1,445 posts

120 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Koenis cost a million dollars, but look and run like a million Lira. Really struggle to get excited by them. An Enzo or Aventador are much better options.

PGNCerbera

2,926 posts

165 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
lamboman100 said:
Koenis cost a million dollars, but look and run like a million Lira. Really struggle to get excited by them. An Enzo or Aventador are much better options.
Really ???
You ever owned one?

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
As TT9 said above, early Koenigseggs had issues. The build quality was questionable at best and the engine response was rather odd, (all the power at the top end)

But over the last few years they have started to come of age. The innovation recently has been great, the build quality can be compared with Pagani and they are getting much better media coverage which can only help the brand.

Where I think they have gone wrong is not producing a proper series of well developed cars. We keep getting very short runs of special additions. The recent 1/1 being a classic case in point. If I was buying a new Egg today I would be worried that tomorrow they would announce a new better faster lighter version.

Pagani realised that customers wanted a certain amount of continuity which was why the 25 Zonda F coupes and 25 Zonda F roadsters were so successful. Even when the Cinque was introduced F owners new they could upgrade their cars to Cinque spec if they wanted, so producing another revenue stream and brand loyalty.

This process is being repeated with the Huryra. Customers know that the next version will be a Roadster and not a special that could potentially de-value what they have. They can see where Pagani is going with the Huryra and that it will follow a similar model cycle to the Zonda. That way the used market is more stable and one car can be compared easily to another.

If I was to advise Koenigsegg I would say they need to build and properly promote a standard model, this could be built in similar numbers to the Zonda F. This would stabilise their market, build brand loyalty and they would find their cars appearing in proper comparison tests in the mags so raising their profile even more.

On the other hand all of the above could be complete rubbish, but that’s what I thinksilly

alan witt

241 posts

207 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Streetrod said:
On the other hand all of the above could be complete rubbish
This smile ............... just pulling your leg.

TWareham

116 posts

206 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Streetrod said:
As TT9 said above, early Koenigseggs had issues. The build quality was questionable at best and the engine response was rather odd, (all the power at the top end)

But over the last few years they have started to come of age. The innovation recently has been great, the build quality can be compared with Pagani and they are getting much better media coverage which can only help the brand.

Where I think they have gone wrong is not producing a proper series of well developed cars. We keep getting very short runs of special additions. The recent 1/1 being a classic case in point. If I was buying a new Egg today I would be worried that tomorrow they would announce a new better faster lighter version.

Pagani realised that customers wanted a certain amount of continuity which was why the 25 Zonda F coupes and 25 Zonda F roadsters were so successful. Even when the Cinque was introduced F owners new they could upgrade their cars to Cinque spec if they wanted, so producing another revenue stream and brand loyalty.

This process is being repeated with the Huryra. Customers know that the next version will be a Roadster and not a special that could potentially de-value what they have. They can see where Pagani is going with the Huryra and that it will follow a similar model cycle to the Zonda. That way the used market is more stable and one car can be compared easily to another.

If I was to advise Koenigsegg I would say they need to build and properly promote a standard model, this could be built in similar numbers to the Zonda F. This would stabilise their market, build brand loyalty and they would find their cars appearing in proper comparison tests in the mags so raising their profile even more.

On the other hand all of the above could be complete rubbish, but that’s what I thinksilly
I think you could be getting your brands confused with regards short runs of special edition vehicles.

To clarify and also educate if it is difficult to follow the Koenigsegg model philosophy...

Koenigsegg have made the following;

From 2002 - 2004 CC8S
From 2004 - 2006 CCR
From 2006 - 2010 - 48 Cars - CCX - within this model there was the options for bio-ethanol CCX-R and a limited edition run of EDITION and Trevita Cars.
From 2010 - Present - 27 Cars -AGERA - within this model there was the option for carbon wheels, big spoiler, triplex suspension, etc.. plus bio-ethonol with the Agera-R and in-turn the Agera-S which had all the bits from the R but without the E85 Engine tech which was mostly redundant in various parts of the world.
2014 saw the One:1 - Limited run of 6

That is 4 model variants on average 1 new model every 4 years. The last run being 27 cars the run before 48!
It is also only 3 Limited Edition Runs, EDITION, Trevita and One:1

In addition to this there have been a few one offs which do sometimes confuse the pot

CCGT
CCRevo
CCXR - Special ONE
Agera HH
Agera Hundra


Pagani to my knowledge have made the following;

Zonda C12 6.0L
Zonda C12 S 7.0L
Zonda C12 S 7.3L
Zonda C12 S 7.3L Roadster
Zonda F - incorporating also Clubsport Model
Zonda F Roadster - incorporating also Clubsport Model
Huayra

Zonda Cinque
Zonda Cinque Roadster
Zonda Tricolore
Zonda R
Zonda 760
Zonda Revolucion

That is 7 models and 6 Limited Edition Runs in a similar period of time.

In addition to these cars there have been these special one-offs?

Zonda Absolute
Zonda RAK
Zonda 750
Zonda HH
Zonda PS
Zonda GJ
Zonda GR
Zonda Monza
Huayra Le Monza Lisa

I think when it comes to model confusion and limited edition runs - Pagani have that market tied up nicely.

I am not saying which method of model release is better, both manufacturers are sold out for the next year, so whatever each of them are doing it is working perfectly fine.

At Koenigsegg I know there is an open door policy for anyone buying a new car, if there is a new model or variant coming that is being worked on then you are told and asked if you want to wait or proceed with the model available at that time. A full upgrades program similar to that of Pagani is also offered as per your post which is great for anyone buying a non-current car who wishes to upgrade to the latest spec. You could even go as far as taking a CCX and putting an Agera turbo charged engine in it.

One thing that is very correct from your post however is the marketing, something that Pagani are very good at and something which has been heavily identified at Koenigsegg as a problem which is being rectified. Following the Top Gear record the CCX set almost 7 years ago Koenigsegg had pretty much outside of the Geneva Motorshow stopped promoting themselves. Koenigsegg for the last year or so has reignited the media machine and now started doing more magazine reviews and the online you-tube videos etc.. this has created a much better buzz around the brand and helped strengthen its position in the market, something that needs to continue and I am sure it will.

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Tommy, not disagreeing with you but your analysis does not paint the full picture. A number of the Pagani Zonda specials are actually updated F's and earlier cars and some of the others were actually built after Zonda production "Officially" ended and were to special request. Pagani have also built a lot more cars than Koenigsegg have in a similar time scale.

In your opinion does the 1:One as the current halo car drive sales of the Agera?