Buying a home vs Building a home

[ndg]

Pit Pony said:

Did I say you have a view of Snowdonia?

On what, 3 days a year

[bennyboydurham]

Magog said:

Have you got a build thread?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=207&t=1190239&mid=181690&i=0&nmt=House+Build+Diary&mid=181690

Here you go.

I'd strongly suspect that most people who are self building are doing so on family land or land connected with agriculture or rural enterprise in some respect, as otherwise the costs become prohibitive. The planning process has been made easier by the NPPF as essentially a whole raft of reasons for refusal have been swept away or greatly reduced in importance. Our site is outside the village settlement zone and therefore is classed as 'open countryside', even though it is bordered on three sides by other dwellings. This alone would have been enough for the council to torpedo us under the Labour government guidance. We ended up spending around £10,000 on a professional planning consultant to essentially dig deep into the council's planning policy and other previous applications so that we could build a case for planning to be granted.

I believe that there is also an element of needing to give the impression that you are serious and are willing to put up a well-orchestrated and sustained effort to achieve your aims. In our case, our planning consultant was well known for his robust and meticulously thought out dealings with the planning department and you have to remember that they only have so many resources with which to fight back. They do not particularly want the workload which comes with rejected cases to going to appeal, unless they are absolutely sure they are on firm ground. The way the planning consultants work is to look at each applicable section of planning policy for your site and then counter any issues with reasoned arguments as to why either the section does not apply, is fulfilled or should not carry too much weight. This all takes a long time and is quite exhausting.

Then once you've got the PP, the hard work REALLY begins. Builders - nightmare. Architects for detailed drawings - nightmare. Self build finance - mmm we're having a nightmare with Halifax as they are a big, stupid, unwieldy organisation who don't know their arses from their elbows but if you deal with a small specialist building society I imagine it would all be a bit easier. Services and utilities - not too bad but you need to know your stuff as they will be asking for detailed maps and layouts etc. Once you've got the thing out the ground as long as the weather holds up until the roof is on (or more specifically the felt, the tiles are just for show as far as water proofing goes) then you're home and dry.

To give an idea of the timeline - here's ours:

Apr 2009 - first approach the council about building to be told 'open countryside' so against policy.

Apr 2011 - after sulking for two years, we contact planning consultant

Dec 2011 - pre-application advice sought from planning department

Jan 2012 - architect brought in to do plans for full planning application

Sep 2012 - application granted

Jan 2013 - move into static caravan

Apr 2013 - detailed planning drawings completed, everything stops after I get made redundant

Dec 2013 - get moving again, builder found

July 2014 - Ground broken

Jan/Feb 2015 - Estimated completion....

[anonymous-user]

I'd never buy a house conventionally again. It took us about 8 years to find somewhere that suited and that we could (sort of) afford. Mortgaged our last house up to the eyeballs to buy the land, crapped ourselves for a year trying to sell it whilst living off beans and going through the planning process. Lived in caravan for 15 months. Moved into house last August. Still haven't got round to doing the final decorating Definitely the best thing we've ever done. I don't work though, so had the time to invest in the build.

[Snollygoster]

So a bit of an update and made some progress.

One of my parents friends has quite a reasonable size estate in Hampshire (like 20 acres or something similar). I mentioned the idea of building a house to my dad, and he mentioned this friend. He has since said he'd be fine to sell a small amount of land (10th of an acre) to build a house for a very reasonable sum of £5,000.

I'm getting quite into the idea now, as it genuinely seems like a viable option. I assume the next stage would be to get someone to evaluate the land to see if it i'd be possible to be built on?

[anonymous-user]

Snollygoster said:

I assume the next stage would be to get someone to evaluate the land to see if it i'd be possible to be built on?

That's putting it mildly

[Tuna]

First stop would be to check planning permission - at least whether planning could be granted in principle. You can simply talk to the local planning officer to find that out. Also you would need to work out if services are accessible. Running power, water and gas can be very expensive if you're not next to existing buildings. Sewage can also be an issue.

10th of an acre is not a bad size, but can be eaten up by local requirements for things like parking and road access. It might be worth checking somewhere like the Potton website for some ideas of 'off the shelf' house designs that would fit in your plot.

[Dave_ST220]

Indeed. What you may find is you can get PP BUT the house will have to be tiny. That is what someone my builder knows has done. There was also all kind of covenants attached like they can't sell it etc etc. Don't take this lightly, I'm in the process of doubling the size of our house, we basically purchased it for the plot. The stress & time taken up while trying to run my business is unreal. I've lost so much weight my jeans fall down even with a belt done as far as it will go! Some days I wonder whether it will be worth it all, I'll tell you at some point next year.

If you don't have the time to manage it then the build will cost you a lot more.

It makes great TV when they show the plot, then the block work & then the finished product. What you don't see is the piles of st that go on in between

If you do go ahead make a spread sheet & type in your costs, you won't believe how quickly £50k disappears.

[GetCarter]

Another here that has done it... and words of caution... the figure you have to build a house will not rise by the 10% often quoted, it'll be a lot more. There are always unforeseen costs.

Still, the best bit about it is you get to design the house that YOU want, not buy one someone else has built. Both myself and Mrs Get work from home, so I got to send her work room as far away from mine as possible We now communicate by Skype during work hours

[bennyboydurham]

Snollygoster said:

So a bit of an update and made some progress.

One of my parents friends has quite a reasonable size estate in Hampshire (like 20 acres or something similar). I mentioned the idea of building a house to my dad, and he mentioned this friend. He has since said he'd be fine to sell a small amount of land (10th of an acre) to build a house for a very reasonable sum of £5,000.

I'm getting quite into the idea now, as it genuinely seems like a viable option. I assume the next stage would be to get someone to evaluate the land to see if it i'd be possible to be built on?

If this is through a generous family friend then all well and good, but go in with your eyes open. Folk with 20 acres of Hampshire to live on usually haven't acquired it through being wet behind the ears, so to speak. As said, check on covenants and that sort of thing and of course first of all whether you'd be likely to get permission in the first place. I would also point out that in my experience council planners will err on the side of noncommittal to negative, so you would be best to find a top drawer planning consultant (and the ones that win ain't cheap) and ask him instead. He won't take on something that he doesn't think he can win.

It's a lot easier to build now than it was before the NPPF came into force (google it), especially in more rural areas where you really were up against it.

I'd also suggest 1/10th of an acre isn't much for a self build. You're not going to have acres of parking or a palatial lawn with that. Ours is around a third of an acre and that's a 'generous' plot, but by no means large.

[Renovation]

In volume housebuilding terms 10 to the acre is for the best homes most build.

[hidetheelephants]

Renovation said:

In volume housebuilding terms 10 to the acre is for the best homes most build.

Unless you're building a retirement cottage 1/10th is a postage stamp and anything family-sized will look silly(like they do on high density estates) with a monk's fringe of garden wrapped around a huge monolith; 1/4-1/3 gives you a decent sized garden for a 4-5 bedroom house. But then I live in Scotland rather than Hampshire.

[Tuna]

hidetheelephants said:

Unless you're building a retirement cottage 1/10th is a postage stamp and anything family-sized will look silly(like they do on high density estates) with a monk's fringe of garden wrapped around a huge monolith; 1/4-1/3 gives you a decent sized garden for a 4-5 bedroom house. But then I live in Scotland rather than Hampshire.

Depends a lot on what surrounds the plot - if it's open fields, then a small plot can work. If it's the back of someone else's house then maybe not. On 1 tenth you can have a 200sqm house over two floors - which is certainly ok for three/four bedrooms, 100sqm drive (10mx10m) and 20m x 10m left over for the garden which is perfectly respectable.

[monkfish1]

Renovation said:

I was shocked when randomly looking on Rightmove that you can buy a decent 3 bed detached house with grounds and a view for £80k in Wales - which means the land value (of a similar plot) must be close to zero.

Your shocked? Why? Nobody wants to live there. Supply and demand and all that.

[MintSprint]

hidetheelephants said:

Renovation said:

In volume housebuilding terms 10 to the acre is for the best homes most build.

Unless you're building a retirement cottage 1/10th is a postage stamp...

Bear in mind that:
a) Overall densities on even fairly 'loose' modern estates (ie. all 2 storey, no flats) by the big commercial housebuilders are around 13-15 dwellings to the acre. As Hidetheelephants said, 10 to the acre would be 'exclusive'.
b) That 10 to the acre includes the area covered by the access roads, and the on-site Public Open Space. A single plot with road frontage would be more generous than a plot on a 10 D.P.A. estate development.

I don't disagree that set in the context of a country estate, it would be easy to make a 1/10th of an acre plot looked cramped, if you put too big a house on it, but it's perfectly capable of supporting a nice 3-bed or perhaps carefully designed 4-bed without looking over-developed.

If somebody offered me a self-build plot in Hampshire with any chance of gaining Planning Permission on it, for £5K, I'd bite their hand off... you can't possibly lose, financially.

[Pit Pony]

Renovation said:

I was shocked when randomly looking on Rightmove that you can buy a decent 3 bed detached house with grounds and a view for £80k in Wales - which means the land value (of a similar plot) must be close to zero.

Depends which bit of Wales, but basically not enough decently paid work to go around. So demand is not high.

This however is on my sister's road and is a hell of a lot more. You can see Snowdonia in the distance, and it would probably go to someone who works at the university.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/34869100#...

[dxg]

bennyboydurham said:

Snollygoster said:

So a bit of an update and made some progress.

One of my parents friends has quite a reasonable size estate in Hampshire (like 20 acres or something similar). I mentioned the idea of building a house to my dad, and he mentioned this friend. He has since said he'd be fine to sell a small amount of land (10th of an acre) to build a house for a very reasonable sum of £5,000.

I'm getting quite into the idea now, as it genuinely seems like a viable option. I assume the next stage would be to get someone to evaluate the land to see if it i'd be possible to be built on?

If this is through a generous family friend then all well and good, but go in with your eyes open. Folk with 20 acres of Hampshire to live on usually haven't acquired it through being wet behind the ears, so to speak. As said, check on covenants and that sort of thing and of course first of all whether you'd be likely to get permission in the first place. I would also point out that in my experience council planners will err on the side of noncommittal to negative, so you would be best to find a top drawer planning consultant (and the ones that win ain't cheap) and ask him instead. He won't take on something that he doesn't think he can win.

It's a lot easier to build now than it was before the NPPF came into force (google it), especially in more rural areas where you really were up against it.

I'd also suggest 1/10th of an acre isn't much for a self build. You're not going to have acres of parking or a palatial lawn with that. Ours is around a third of an acre and that's a 'generous' plot, but by no means large.

Also have a look through the Local Authority's Local Plan (or whatever it's called these days...) to see if the land you are thinking of buying has already been identified as a development opportunity or in any way resembles existing plots such identified. Be warned, LAs (at least the one round here) tends to prefer brownfield sites. If it has/does, then you might stand a chance...