RE: Four-cylinder Cayman at the Nurburgring
Discussion
E65Ross said:
Zoon said:
Super/Hyper cars never had hybrid drive trains either but environmental pressures introduce new engineering challenges. Does it matter if a car no longer has a V10 engine if the performance/sound can be matched with less cylinders? Purists will say yes, but technology evolves for the better sometimes, sometimes not.
For me, Porsche offer quite an enthralling drive; and for a lot of car enthusiasts the noise an engine makes is quite a large part of that. It would be great if they could make them sound as good, but they won't.4 cylinder engines can sound good. I've yet to come across a 4 cylinder road engine which sounds better than the best sounding 6 cylinder engines IMO. I think you can get some 4 pots sounding nicer than 6 pots but on the whole a decent 6 pot does sound better.
Then there is the issue of the character of the engine, eagerness to rev etc which isn't quite as sharp with turbocharged engines on the whole. Yes, some turbo engines rev quite high (eg McLaren 650S) but....then a high revving NA engine will always rev that bit higher, be that bit more responsive and so on.
I've no doubt Porsche will do a very good job at it. Will the engine be as exciting in terms of noise and its desire to rev like some of their best 6 pots? Not a chance.
I think 4 pots work very well in lightweight, more stripped out road cars (eg Elise) yet Porsche typically have an air of quality and refinement about them, and 6 cylinders add to that experience IMO.
Obviously will reserve judgement until it comes out/if/when I get to try one, but there's a good reason why GT3s/RSs have such a following and have historically been more prized than the Turbos of the same generation. As long as choice remains of a n/a 6cyl Cayman, I'm not too bothered by this news, but removing the 6 pot from box/cay completely will most likely change the character of the car - much as it has with the latest M3/4, the F10 M5 when moving from the old V8/V10 - both more accomplished, easier to live with as a result, and probably suited to their applications as a saloon/4 seater coupe first and sports car second. It will make it more daily driver friendly, cheaper to run, better on fuel, cheaper tax and all that stuff. But you shift further along on the sports car-daily driver spectrum - where currently, it seems the 991 has moved further into GT/daily driver end of the spectrum while the Cayman is quite firmly at the more out and out sports car end.
Terminator X said:
I didn't mention history? The point I'm trying to make [to you] is that the current model range ergo brand is watered down with the advent of this new engine. As it was at the time the diesel engine came out. Strong model range vs weakened model range = watered down!
TX.
How is it watering down? They aren't going to stop making 6 cylinder engines for the foreseeable future.TX.
How is having choice a bad thing?
Furthermore, how does one define a weakened model range exactly? You're writing off an engine without having tried it yet - obviously you must know something Porsche doesn't.
How does having a 4 cylinder engine that's more fuel efficient make a Boxster or a Cayman worse?
Do you think people who will actually be contemplating buying a Porsche not do so because the now will have to choose between a 4-pot and a 6-pot engine?
Terminator X said:
Real shame to see the brand watered down. Profit above all else it seems.
TX.
When they start putting diesel engines in the Cayman/Boxster and 911 I'll agree with you.TX.
Until then, this looks like an interesting car. I have no doubt that Porsche will make it very decent indeed.
Will this be up against the BMW M235i in terms of pricing/performance?
It isn't going to be "very light" though, is it? If they engineer the next version with a shorter wheelbase so it can't take a six-pot there might be significant weight savings to be made, but swapping a N/A six for a turbocharged four in the same chassis isn't going to make a very significant difference to the weight.
Porsche has made plenty of lovely four-cylinders. This is simply getting back to their roots.
The engines will be fine, but I'm certain that the second rev of the next generation Boxster/Cayman (so the third generation of this engine) is when they'll really come into their own, sound and all. They'll get closer to the economy and emissions numbers they need to as well.
Regardless, glad I have my Cayman GTS.
The engines will be fine, but I'm certain that the second rev of the next generation Boxster/Cayman (so the third generation of this engine) is when they'll really come into their own, sound and all. They'll get closer to the economy and emissions numbers they need to as well.
Regardless, glad I have my Cayman GTS.
mrclav said:
ow is it watering down? They aren't going to stop making 6 cylinder engines for the foreseeable future.
How is having choice a bad thing?
I think the point is that it's meaning the 6 cylinder option will become available only in the more expensive model, if it is retained. For example, you currently have the Cayman and Cayman S; both are 6 cylinders of differing performance. I doubt very much you'll get a Cayman 4 pot, a base 6 pot, and the Cayman S; it'll be the 6 pot Cayman S and the 4 pot....the 4 pot will occupy the current base 6 pot price, and the S only available as the more expensive model.How is having choice a bad thing?
E65Ross said:
I think the point is that it's meaning the 6 cylinder option will become available only in the more expensive model, if it is retained. For example, you currently have the Cayman and Cayman S; both are 6 cylinders of differing performance. I doubt very much you'll get a Cayman 4 pot, a base 6 pot, and the Cayman S; it'll be the 6 pot Cayman S and the 4 pot....the 4 pot will occupy the current base 6 pot price, and the S only available as the more expensive model.
Ross, 2002 Turbo was a front runner - anyone else in the 70's? That is the difference to a few years go:
back then, good looking, extremely competent and exciting cars did not sell because they were not 911s, in spite of the Porsche badge.
These days, any s
t with a Porsche badge on it sells. This does not look bade, does not drive bad, is not expensive. It will sell in large numbers.
Come one, even the Diesel SUV sold in large numbers, why wouldn't this one?
back then, good looking, extremely competent and exciting cars did not sell because they were not 911s, in spite of the Porsche badge.
These days, any s
t with a Porsche badge on it sells. This does not look bade, does not drive bad, is not expensive. It will sell in large numbers. Come one, even the Diesel SUV sold in large numbers, why wouldn't this one?
Mermaid said:
E65Ross said:
I think the point is that it's meaning the 6 cylinder option will become available only in the more expensive model, if it is retained. For example, you currently have the Cayman and Cayman S; both are 6 cylinders of differing performance. I doubt very much you'll get a Cayman 4 pot, a base 6 pot, and the Cayman S; it'll be the 6 pot Cayman S and the 4 pot....the 4 pot will occupy the current base 6 pot price, and the S only available as the more expensive model.
Ross, 2002 Turbo was a front runner - anyone else in the 70's? The E30 325i to M3 was different as the 325i was quite a lazy engine and the 4 cylinder M3 was a crisp NA engine.... Which didn't sound as good as the 325i imo.
Raize said:
As long as it's a boxer rather than an inline engine it's not going to have any sound problems.
The Subaru flat fours with equal length headers sound very bland and the ones with unequal length headers are an acquired taste. I don't think "sounds a bit like an Impreza turbo" is an association Porsche will want. If it's true that the new 4 pot will come in upwards of 3 states of tune including +300hp
Then I would say the reasons are;
Part trend.
Part emissions.
But mostly to perhaps keep the 6 pot as the preserve of the 911.
Afterall, what has eroded 911 sales recently ?
The Cayman being so dam good with a big 6 in the middle.
They even quote comically slow 0-60 figures for the hot Caymans just so it won 't upset
911 buyers...
We all know the 4 pot won't sound that great.
It will be interesting to see if Porsche succumb to using the audio system to enhance it (bet they do).
Base model is sure to have an enticing price.
Then I would say the reasons are;
Part trend.
Part emissions.
But mostly to perhaps keep the 6 pot as the preserve of the 911.
Afterall, what has eroded 911 sales recently ?
The Cayman being so dam good with a big 6 in the middle.
They even quote comically slow 0-60 figures for the hot Caymans just so it won 't upset
911 buyers...
We all know the 4 pot won't sound that great.
It will be interesting to see if Porsche succumb to using the audio system to enhance it (bet they do).
Base model is sure to have an enticing price.
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