Do folk really perceive RWD to be dangerous?

Do folk really perceive RWD to be dangerous?

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Discussion

e21Mark

Original Poster:

16,205 posts

172 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Spoke to friend of the woman next door and asked him about his Clio Sport. In conversation he mentioned how he would never consider a BMW down to their being RWD and inherently dangerous. He went on to describe how the rear can step out without warning, due to the poor design.

I've also noted a few posts on here, with comments that suggest semi-trailing arms to be the work of Satan, despite cars like the E30 M3 having them.

I grew up with RWD being the norm', so never really gave it a second thought, but do some folk really consider RWD to be dangerous?

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

30,230 posts

234 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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e21Mark said:
but do some folk really consider RWD to be dangerous?
I guess some folks are more liable to come unstuck, so probably yes. (although RWD BMW drivers are less dangerous in the snow on account of the fact they can't get going in the first place hehe)

NiceCupOfTea

25,280 posts

250 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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What I've never understood:

E36 compact and z3 roadster - crap handling and rear suspension
E30 - excellent fun tail out handling

Same rear end isn't it?

Sheepshanks

32,531 posts

118 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Certainly had far too many "moments" with RWD cars while growing up in the 70's.

Drive a Merc now and I tried to powerslide it around a greasy roundabout - the ESP just wagged its finger at me and car went around as if on rails.

aka_kerrly

12,416 posts

209 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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To an extent RWD is a bit more of a challenge and less forgiving than a FWD/AWD set up.

As a result RWD in the wrong hands is more dangerous.


ORD

18,086 posts

126 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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ESP has made a huge difference, but even without it you need to be driving like a nob to have a problem in a decent RWD car with good tyres.

Lots of people do assume that a greasy road turns a RWD car into a death trap, though. The same people have no idea which wheels drive their car or what's under the bonnet or how to drive to conditions or how to deal with oversteer, etc. Their opinions don't matter. smile

Tribal Chestnut

2,997 posts

181 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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No. Most 'folk' do not understand the difference between RWD/FWD, etc.

V8Ford

2,675 posts

165 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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A colleague of mine insists that if RWD cars were as prevalent today as they were in the 70s the roads would be strewn with wrecked cars and bodies.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Tribal Chestnut said:
No. Most 'folk' do not understand the difference between RWD/FWD, etc.

Most people can't drive!!! they drive and learnt to drive in abs esp equipped bland mobiles so when they encounter adverse conditions or something that needs driving its trouble
I was lucky I've done a fair bit of motor sport and learnt to drive as a kid off road in a Austin A35 personally I prefer a little oversteer but Joe average is safer with FWD IMHO.

StuntmanMike

11,671 posts

150 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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I grew up with RWD, I have mostly owned RWD cars, I currently drive a BMW, probably the dullest RWD you can buy, they are so tame it's unreal.
OP, I learned long ago in life, never discuss cars with fkwits.

TurboHatchback

4,152 posts

152 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Tribal Chestnut said:
No. Most 'folk' do not understand the difference between RWD/FWD, etc.
This.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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yes, I think people do to a certain extent, well, some do, the ones that know which set of wheels moves their car, a lot for example have four wheel drives but don't actually know what that means, or, even worse think it means physics defying grip.

Back when RWD was the norm, most cars your average punter could buy were 60, 70, maybe 100 bhp, the odd exceptions were 130 - 140 bhp V6 Capris, nowadays even cooking BMW 1 series have 150 odd, ranging up to 300 ish for the 135i, power is much more accesible and I do think that without ESP there would be a lot more accidents, especially with the torquey turbodiesel engines.

I remember that a few Police forces had problems when they got the BMW 325 TDS and Sierra Cosworth, in fact I seem to remember there was a death or two, people were probably used to RWD but not that big lump of tyre unsticking grunt that a turbo brings.


Perhaps the non petrolheads arent that daft and could get used to it, but driving has changed from being a male preserve, blokes that did their own maintenance and "got" cars, a lot more people drive now than back in the seventies, a less of them are interested in it other than a means of transport.

I think like the Eurofighter wouldn't fly without the computer control, some models now wouldn't really be possible to unleash on the public without the electronics, 550 bhp SUV's driven by school run mums for example, RWD diesel BMW's with 300 bhp and 450 pounds of torque at not much above idle, a "grunty" engine back in the seventies had 100 lb/ft at 4000 rpm.

I have a 350Z and its not a complete animal but I find it pays not to subscribe too much to forum lore about how a car is forgiving, I had a 944 S2 before and that wasnt above ignoring its reputation and being a bit unruly.

I suppose now, you don't have to be "on it" quite like you used to be, due to the electronics, but they aren't infallible, I like the ones that give you a little bit of leeway, the 350Z is too vigilant.








Codswallop

5,250 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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J4CKO said:
Back when RWD was the norm, most cars your average punter could buy were 60, 70, maybe 100 bhp, the odd exceptions were 130 - 140 bhp V6 Capris, nowadays even cooking BMW 1 series have 150 odd, ranging up to 300 ish for the 135i, power is much more accesible and I do think that without ESP there would be a lot more accidents, especially with the torquey turbodiesel engines.
Increases in power have been offset by increases in weight, ever wider tyres with improved compounds, larger brakes and ESP and safety systems that often require a lot of determination to turn off. I sincerely doubt there would be many more (maybe even fewer) accidents if all current cars were RWD given other advances.

Bigger problem IMO is the number of distractions that drivers have to contend with these days.

Matttracker

630 posts

146 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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I find it did more people don't come unstuck. I've had countless times when the backs stepped out on my 320d, I quite enjoy it when it does, but it's caught me out once or twice when I wasn't expecting.
I'm surprised I don't see more 320ds and 120ds bouncing off curbs

Do like rwd more than not though

Wadeski

8,132 posts

212 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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While I prefer, and enjoy driving a RWD car...I'd say it probably is more dangerous. The only times I have truly spazzed out and spun a car off the road was when the classic damp road + throttle + overcorrection came into play.

You dont really get that in a FWD.

I still like the mid engine, RWD setup best though.

vanordinaire

3,701 posts

161 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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If you want a modern experience of 70's style rear wheel drive, try an empty pickup on wet roads, just like driving a Capri. Scarey ,dangerous as you can get in a modern vehicle, but some of the best driving fun to be had.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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NiceCupOfTea said:
What I've never understood:

E36 compact and z3 roadster - crap handling and rear suspension
E30 - excellent fun tail out handling

Same rear end isn't it?
That is a good point. I've always thought the snide remarks directed at the Z3's rear suspension were a bit iffy considering the E30 is a reasonable handler and the Z3 was never meant to handle with the finesse of a Boxster or whatever (it was conceived as a GT for the US market IIRC).

Did the Z3 also have a slightly wider rear track and tyres?

MC Bodge

21,552 posts

174 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Motorbikes are (almost all) rear wheel drive and most don't have traction control either...

It is obvious, but:

Rear wheel drive has a tendency to break traction at the rear on low-friction surfaces, which can result in oversteer if the car is turning. The human instinct/survival reaction is to lift-off the throttle suddenly in the event of a problem, which can exacerbate the problem.

In a FWD car the front tends to break traction which can result in understeer. Lifting-off weights the front end, which can reduce the understeer.


Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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Tribal Chestnut said:
No. Most 'folk' do not understand the difference between RWD/FWD, etc.
Dunno what you mean.


mwstewart

7,554 posts

187 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
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These days don't most people perceive everything to be dangerous?