scotland to reduce Drink Drive limit

scotland to reduce Drink Drive limit

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Discussion

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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Yaaaawn.

Are we going to ban up tempo music as well?

offshorematt2

864 posts

215 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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dandarez said:
This arguing about just one pint and driving.

A friend did this, he could see no problem in it. He drove quite a lot. The pub he frequented is not far (I walk to it, still do) but nah, he'd drive. We're in the sticks, so... one pint (sometimes though it was more than one). Funnily (not really) he had the same attitude with seat belts. To drive to work - 11 miles - he wore it. To go to the village shop (and the pub!) he couldn't see the point.

The point is, guess where he is now? It involved a Spar lorry. Do I need to tell you more?
Yes, I think you probably do. Had he had one? Or had he had more than one? The latter means he would have broken the drink driving law regardless and so the new limit would have been irrelevant to him, no? Did he cause the accident that presumably killed him? What factor did the seatbelt have - had he been wearing it, he may have survived which presumably has nothing to do with alcohol. Does that means it's seatbelts not alcohol we should focus on here? Your sample size of one is irrelevant to any conclusion on whether a single beer makes a difference, though you seem to think it somehow closes the argument.

Edinburger's similar position was based on someone he knew being killed by a drink driver (and he has my sympathies of course). Given the driver was presumably prosecuted and actually found guilty of being a drink driver though, then it would seem he hadn't had one pint which would have had him under the limit... so again, the guy was over the current limit and a reduction in the limit makes zero difference to someone who doesn't respect the law as it currently stands.

Personally speaking I have absolutely no issue with one pint before driving - it is (was) entirely legal and any impairment to driving ability is far outweighed by countless other factors. I'm amazed that some seem to think that it somehow makes me a reckless idiot with 'no self control'. Glad I'm not the landlord of a rural pub though - this is just another nail in the coffin of a dying industry.

From a different perspective, one thing I can see happening though is a lot more people being caught the day after a night out. A pal is an air traffic controller. Their limit turning up for work is way below the drink drive limit, and without exception respected that and didn't drink the night before a cycle started. Their company decided that people were playing fast and loose with the rules (my friend says they categorically weren't) and ordered a load of digital Alcosense calibrated breathalysers for people to police themselves. The lawyers stepped in and prevented them being issued, so instead they were sold at cost price. When the guys started testing themselves on their off time, it appeared that it was actually very difficult for them to get in a shape where they weren't fit to work the morning after - their kidneys and livers were presumably pretty robust after plenty of practice. I took this with a pinch of salt, but after buying one of these breathalysers myself, i've only once found myself over the limit the next day, and that was after a serious session through to the not-so-small hours. My point is I've often taken the decision not to drive the morning after due to hangover/ldehydration/tiredness regardless of the drink drive limit. I've known that my judgement behind the wheel would be impaired. Plenty would clearly ignore that though - a reduced drink drive limit could help in this respect, I guess.

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Friday 24th October 2014
quotequote all
dandarez said:
This arguing about just one pint and driving.

A friend did this, he could see no problem in it. He drove quite a lot. The pub he frequented is not far (I walk to it, still do) but nah, he'd drive. We're in the sticks, so... one pint (sometimes though it was more than one). Funnily (not really) he had the same attitude with seat belts. To drive to work - 11 miles - he wore it. To go to the village shop (and the pub!) he couldn't see the point.

The point is, guess where he is now? It involved a Spar lorry. Do I need to tell you more?
So I take it he was driving without a seatbelt, rather than drunk.

He was endangering himself, no one else, and was also breaking the law.

The fact he sometimes had one pint is utterly irrelevant if he wasn't over the DD limit.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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Does a pint impair reaction times? (Genuine question)

I don't like the idea of people driving and smoking anything at the same time, since it's splitting concentration.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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Nothing to do with self control, more a question of quality of life. A glass of good red wine with an evening meal improves the occasion. And it makes sod all difference to your ability to drive and its legal at the moment. Note that the science shows a slight improvement in ability (more relaxed?) with a small quantity of alcohol.

driver67

976 posts

164 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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This bullst would have been part of the SNP plan to cow tow to the EUSSR and gain favorable glad handing post a YES referendum vote.

Nothing but socialist bullst.


PhillipM

6,515 posts

188 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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it can have quite an affect on how you drive actually, yes.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Citation of your science required: the claim that any amount of alcohol impairs reaction times. Please provide smile

I don't want to leave the car at home. Car is by far the most cost effective and convenient way to get me and my other half about.

I also want a Peroni with my pepperoni pizza.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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One of many, use google.

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/35791/

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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It's a rather big assertion to suggest that alcohol's effect on the body scales linearly with the amount consumed.

If you have ever gotten really drunk - you must realise this clearly isn't the case. Small amounts of alcohol can impart little if any impairment, whilst increasing amounts can have catastrophic consequences. You can be lucid and able to function in a reasonably controlled manner after 5 pints, but be a gibbering wreck, throwing up and unable to walk/talk after 6. I'd say for larger amounts the effect scales exponentially.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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Sometimes I run down the stairs.

Sometimes I flush the toilet before I've stopped pissing.

Sometimes I get in the bath without certainty over how hot it is.

Sometimes I have a pint if I'm out for a meal.

I hold all of these things equally trivial in nature. Next you'll be telling me I shouldn't be running down the stairs, or up stairs, or leaving the house, or staying in the house since most accidents happen in the home.

I'm doing fk all harm having a single pint and driving home. Do we really want our police force wasting time and energy and money working out if folk's blood alcohol is half the old limit, or 2/3 of it? I for one would much rather they were seeking out drivers who are seriously impaired through drink or drugs. Or just plain idiot cocks.

But no, as long as 'something' is being done, all is well.

Pathetic.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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Indeed.

I'd guess there's more chance of me causing harm by running down stairs or getting into a scalding bath, than having a pint with my dinner and driving home.

ETA: what if I'm a better driver after a pint with my dinner, than the taxi driver who takes me home, as he's at the end of his shift and needing his bed? Then I'd be safer drink driving. Taxi drivers don't wear seatbelts, either.

Edited by simoid on Saturday 25th October 01:37

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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anonymous said:
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How about banning motorbikes?

You can't object to that on a risk basis

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
So you have an issue with bikes being banned because it is what YOU enjoy but are happy to see me having to pay an extra £80 for a meal because it doesn't effect you

Looking at the figures bikers are a very high risk group

And while they kill themselves a lot their families have to suffer the effects

we should in your safety first society ban bikes

motorbikes in your world are only owned by selfish bds

supersingle

3,205 posts

218 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Having one drink does not increase your risk of an accident, is not illegal and is not irresponsible. Why do you fail to understand this?

Foppo

2,344 posts

123 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Pwig said:
Am I right by thinking there has never been a study which proves that you are a worse driver after a pint than before? In fact I think every study shows you are actually better.

Happy to be proved otherwise.
Have you been drinking? >smile I'm no saint but when driving don't drink alcohol the temptation for a second pint is big.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Cannot believe some of the stuff posted here. Cannot believe that so many posters on a car enthusiast website are arguing why they should have a pint before driving.

It's simple - either drink OR drive. Don't do both.

I really really do not see the enjoyment of having one pint. It's pointless. Why the get the taste and then punish yourself for the rest if the evening?

Get a taxi. It's straightforward really. The arbitrary limit is there to cover alcohol in food, maybe even the morning after.

Oh, and look at other country's limits and look at their death/serious injury rates (due to drink driving) compared to ours.

By the way, I'm far from being any sort if goody-two-shoes or rule confirmor. But on this issue, it's there for good reason.

McWigglebum4th

32,414 posts

203 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Foppo said:
Have you been drinking? >smile I'm no saint but when driving don't drink alcohol the temptation for a second pint is big.
Ban cars that can break the speed limit

The temptation for some is just too great


chrisgtx

1,195 posts

209 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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I think England and Wales should use the Scots as a guinea pig on this one,I'm not in favour of it personally.
I'm my experience whenever there's a fatal or serious incident caused by a drink driver,they are absolutely blotto, I mean not just a smidge over the limit,miles over it.
So the people who do that have no respect for the current limit,why will they bother with a slightly lower one.
Give it a few years and see if it makes any difference.
I read a quote of someone from the ABD and he said he would like to see something done about the 9 out of 10 fatals caused by bad driving sober people. But no politician is likely to want to work hard on that elephant in the room.

Edinburger

10,403 posts

167 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Mojocvh said:
Don't we work that out a couple of volumes ago?

If not idiotic, the blind obedience to both the "safety" and the "must be seen to do something" dogma is a tell tale indication of the quasi Stalinist...
What a stupid and ignorant comment.

Please explain why it's a good idea to knowingly or plan to drive when under the influence of a mood and behaviour changing drug?