RE: For sale: one F1 team

RE: For sale: one F1 team

Author
Discussion

Crashedandburned

1 posts

113 months

Friday 24th October 2014
quotequote all
Remember peeps to make a small fortune out of Formula 1, you must first start with a large one?

Catatafish

1,361 posts

144 months

Friday 24th October 2014
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pigeonskirt said:
C'mon Branson, get it bought. Small change for you and we might end up with another competitive F1 team!

(not that there's much chance of you being on here to read this)
He's already been there and done that.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Friday 24th October 2014
quotequote all
you've not only got to pay for the team, you also have to pay all the supplying companies who are owed money by the team and pay all the staff who are owed money by the team (this is on top of the money required to keep the team racing for the near future).

Basically, if you take the cost of buying the team and then multiply by at least four then you might (and I mean might!), just be in a position to go F1 racing (albeit as a tail-end Charlie only!).

Someone once asked Bernie: "How do you become a Millionaire in F1?"

His reply was: "Start off by being a Billionaire!"

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Friday 24th October 2014
quotequote all
4rephill said:
you've not only got to pay for the team, you also have to pay all the supplying companies who are owed money by the team and pay all the staff who are owed money by the team
The team will get sold of less than the debts and the administrator will pay off a proportion of the debts with the money from the sale.

I very much doubt that all creditors will receive money at all and i very much doubt if any of them will get all that they are owed.

landie

4 posts

163 months

Friday 24th October 2014
quotequote all
Its the same as buying a football club.......if you want to make a small fortune out of running a football club or a formula one team....................you had better start with a very big one !!!!!

alangtt

278 posts

161 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Sorry unless I can't see it.
How much?

Leithen

10,799 posts

266 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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alangtt said:
Sorry unless I can't see it.
How much?
£1 more than any other offer on the table.

And depending on the administrator, perhaps an ounce of credibility. But given F1, perhaps not.

ivanhoew

974 posts

240 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
so , just to check if i have this right,

this situation of the team being up for sale depends on ,

a) fernadez being reliable and passing over the shares.

b)kolles being reliable and passing over the ownership papers .

um,is it just me, but...

belleair302

6,835 posts

206 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
For around £150 million a year with no return it looks like a fun project. I can think of better ways to gain global advertising and promote myself than in F1 these days and I have worked in the business for over 15 years sadly.

vescaegg

25,489 posts

166 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Surely anyone with enough money to buy it wouldn't be stupid enough to buy it?

chickensoup

469 posts

254 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Who are the administrators selling on behalf of / where did they acquire the rest from?
Tony Fernandez - who already sold it
or the "consortuim" who bought it

woof

8,456 posts

276 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
What's it worth ?
THe only value really is the F1 entry/licence. There's no value in the 2014 cars. Engines are leased.
The tooling equipment, the premises are all on a lease.

£25-50 million max ?!

redroadster

1,729 posts

231 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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chickensoup said:
Who are the administrators selling on behalf of / where did they acquire the rest from?
Tony Fernandez - who already sold it
or the "consortuim" who bought it
lol exactly !

lowdrag

12,868 posts

212 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
Get in a queue behind Brabham to contribute.............

Who's next I wonder? This F1 thing is becoming something to endure, not enjoy. I wonder if Rosberg will suffer more unfortunate gremlins to allow Hamilton to win the championship?

RoverP6B

4,338 posts

127 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
pigeonskirt said:
C'mon Branson, get it bought. Small change for you and we might end up with another competitive F1 team!

(not that there's much chance of you being on here to read this)
You forget that he was the man who brought the Manor Racing F3 team into F1 (now known as Marussia and in all kinds of financial merde itself after he cut his losses and ran)...

MattGTA

419 posts

171 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
Easy to forget amongst all this BS and handbags that there's a bunch of chaps in Oxfordshire who give their all to get those cars on the grid every race. They're not rich - they do it because they're committed to going racing and bloody good at what they do. Presumably, they're now sat at home wondering if they have jobs or not...

It strikes me as sad that backend F1 teams have become toys for the rich and famous - I for one would love to see a return to simpler times where 'garagistas' can make a decent fist of it and you don't need the resources of a small country to be competitive. Never going to happen, sadly…

As for Caterham F1, let's hope that whatever happens doesn't involve a football sugar daddy or a dodgy oil billionaire and that the team gets what it deserves - an owner who gives actually a sh*t.

Let's also hope that they put the best drivers they can possibly get their hands on behind the wheel.

soapbox


S1M VP

949 posts

233 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
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Does anyone know the incomes and outgoings of running an F1 team?
What revenues do each team get?
Running costs?
Etc


Secondly ....
Hope for the employees & the sports sake that a buyer is found to continue the team.

If you consider the time the likes of Ferrari, McLaren etc have had at the top flight of Motorsport, their experience and the financial support they have .... these Caterham guys are not that far behind them on each lap, so hat off to what they have achieved so far.

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
chickensoup said:
Who are the administrators selling on behalf of / where did they acquire the rest from?
Tony Fernandez - who already sold it
or the "consortuim" who bought it
Caterham Sports Ltd has gone in to administration. This company operated the F1 team - built the cars, turned up at races, rented facilities at Leafield etc.
It is owned by Tony Fernandes, always has been, he did not complete the sale.

There is another company, which was also owned by Fernandes called 1 Malaysia Racing. 1MRT own the F1 entry and contracted CSL to operate the team under that entry.

In June Fernandes entered a contract to sell both companies to a company called Engavest. By this time CSL was already running up various debts. There was some sort of agreement between Fernandes and Engavest relating to the sale - at least part of this is that Engavest would pay off CSL's creditors. Fernandes kept legal possession of CSL (via shares) until this had been done. The details of the deal were not public knowledge.

CSL continued to run up debts. Engavest created another company called Caterham CF1 Grand Prix, it would appear that this was to be a replacement for CSL but it seems have not to have actually done anything.

Early October bailiffs enter Leafield and take various parts in lieu of debts. Fernandes puts out a press release saying that the F1 team was nothing to do with him or Caterham cars. This we know know was an outright lie. Caterham F1 team (i.e. Engavest) put out a curious press release saying that the stuff taken did not belong to the F1 team but to a supplier. It was a little cryptic at the time but obviously they meant the equipment belonged to CSL and not 1MRT.

CSL were due to be wound up by creditors in November, instead it was placed in to administration this week. Staff of CSL were given notice that they would be TUPE'd to 1MRT. A former football called Constantin Cojocar was by now sole director of CSL, who was actually the factory cleaner.

Caterham F1 (Engavest) put out a press release stating that CSL going in to administration has had a devastating effect on the team. They claims that Tony Fernandes still owns the company and had refused to transfer the shares (i.e. ownership) of CSL despite them having fulfilled all of the requirements of the sale deal and that they had been funding the team with their own money, despite not owning it. As they couldn't get any sense out of Fernandes they were having to give up on CSL but were exploring all options on how the team can continue.

Fernandes releases a press statement saying that he hadn't transferred the shares because Engavest had not fulfilled their obligations, thus the sale deal was not complete. This means he was admitting to lying in the earlier press release. He claims that he kept hold of the shares to safeguard the future of the team and the staff.

Engavest put out another press release, re-stating that they had fulfilled every condition in the sale deal.

Fernandes replies, again saying that they hadn't.

Both sides were making petty snipes at each other in the press releases.

So the administrator turns up at Leafield, locks the race cars inside and states that he is the legal owner of the cars, because they are owned by CSL.
Engavest say that the cars actually belong to 1MRT, because they have a document from 2011 from Tony Fernandes that says so (presumably part of the contract between 1MRT and CSL).

The administrator realises that a racing team that goes racing is worth more than one that does not. He holds talks to release the cars, allowing 1MRT to continue as Caterham F1. They cannot come to an agreement. This means the team miss Austin GP as the cars can't ship in time.

CSL staff are informed that they will not be TUPE'd to 1MRT. Engavest put out another press release that basically says they are giving the administrators control of 1MRT as well, effectively walking away.

I think what Engavest wanted to do is dump CSL, which was debt laden, continue to operate as 1MRT and then use Caterham CF1 as the operator. This plan went wrong when the administrator took the cars.

I am unsure of the ownership of 1MRT, but CSL is owned by Tony Fernandes who seems to be doing sweet fk all for the team or the staff that he claims he was helping.

Either way, the administrator now has the whole lot and claims to have several parties interested in the team or assets thereof. Estimated debt is circa £12m.

Its big stty mess and neither Fernandes or Engavest look particularly good. There is some talk that CSL ahd some hidden debts that the new owners were unaware of but then found out about later on. Quite possible that this is the root of the disagreement over the sale deal - Fernandes might be expecting Engavest to pay that debt off, who presumably refused to do so.
The tipping point for CSl was a bank known as Exim who called in a loan - Engavest claim that Fernandes is responsible for that debt, not them.

I'd love to know all the details so we can say for sure who agreed to what, but for now we just have to hope that someone picks up the team from the administrator and gets it back to the grid.

Paul Dishman

4,676 posts

236 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
Let's hope QPR get relegated

Crafty_

13,248 posts

199 months

Saturday 25th October 2014
quotequote all
Paul Dishman said:
Let's hope QPR get relegated
I'm no football expert, but if that happens Fernandes will probably run up a bit of debt and sell it to the first scumbag that comes along.

From comments here and there is seems very unpopular with the fans but I don't really follow football, so I don't know if I'm seeing an unrepresentative picture.