Autocar : 458S v 650S vs 991 GT3 (non R S ;) )

[Mermaid]

s2000db said:

Gibbo205 said:

But for these test why don't they try a 991 turbo S on cup 2's ok it won't be as fun as the GT3 but would it be faster?

Edited by Gibbo205 on Thursday 30th October 21:49

I think it would be!

do fancy a used 991 Turbo S (extra set of wheels with Cups for Summer), although the 991 GTS will be another great daily.

[Steve Rance]

mrdemon said:

it's gets better every model but never really excels in that dept, trail braking just slows you down and you should not need to have to do it.

Porsche know this and have made sure the car can corner better with real wheel steering and that seems to make the car.

I am not knocking the product it's 100k cheaper and knocks out amazing times, but the 458S spanks it.

Interesting. Trial braking doesn't slow Lewis Hamilton down, or Alonso, or Richard Westbrook. It didn't hinder my speed much either

[mrdemon]

Steve Rance said:

Interesting. Trial braking doesn't slow Lewis Hamilton down, or Alonso, or Richard Westbrook. It didn't hinder my speed much either

new car laps faster with Rear wheel steering though, why brake when you don't need too ?

Any form of braking is slower if one car does not need to do it !

I guess it's the 911 way and people will stick up for the understeer and just say learn to drive !!!

[Gibbo205]

mrdemon said:

new car laps faster with Rear wheel steering though, why brake when you don't need too ?

Any form of braking is slower if one car does not need to do it !

I guess it's the 911 way and people will stick up for the understeer and just say learn to drive !!!

Professional drivers use trail braking to achieve faster lap times and it's not just exclusive to 911's.

[Harris_I]

keep it lit said:

Ravi355 said:

keep it lit said:

6RS is king and we know it

Yup there good but broaden your horizons and drive some f cars. You'll be very pleasantly surprised.

kind words & many thanks...

I come from an F car family inc many factory Modena collections.. many recent years in race conditions have shown me the truth

+1. There's a general perception that F cars are quicker on track than their P car equivalents.

Ignoring the subjective judgments of handling, looks, noise, presence and all that stuff that doesn't matter when churning out on-the-limit lap times, data and results show:

- 996 Cup roughly at par with 430 Challenge cars. The Scuderia runs 20hp more than the Challenge but is 125kg heavier, so driver skill determines which of the roadgoing 6RS and Scud will be quicker on track.
- 997 Cup substantially quicker than 430 Challenge. In fact, the comparison is embarrassing. The difference between 7Cup and 7Road is bigger than 6Cup vs 6Road so the comparison between F and P road cars gets a bit more complicated. Although having never compared them head to head, I'm certain I would be quicker in a 3.8RS than a Scud.

The other thing I recall is 430 Challenges break a lot when competing (because they're basically a development of the road car which unlike the 6 and 7GT3 seem really unfit for purpose). And F cars are ludicrously expensive to fix. This was in a very hot climate so perhaps reliability issues in Europe are different.

[mrdemon]

Gibbo205 said:

Professional drivers use trail braking to achieve faster lap times and it's not just exclusive to 911's.

They don't have rear wheel steering though :-)

[DMC2]

mrdemon said:

new car laps faster with Rear wheel steering though, why brake when you don't need too ?

Any form of braking is slower if one car does not need to do it !

I guess it's the 911 way and people will stick up for the understeer and just say learn to drive !!!

Trail braking can do many things to a car, transfer weight, help balance, remove understeer, turn quicker etc.

[mrdemon]

DMC2 said:

Trail braking can do many things to a car, transfer weight, help balance, remove understeer, turn quicker etc.

Or you can fit rear wheel steer and not brake.....does all the above with no braking !

[Slippydiff]

mrdemon said:

Steve Rance said:

Interesting. Trial braking doesn't slow Lewis Hamilton down, or Alonso, or Richard Westbrook. It didn't hinder my speed much either

new car laps faster with Rear wheel steering though, why brake when you don't need too ?

Any form of braking is slower if one car does not need to do it !"

I guess it's the 911 way and people will stick up for the understeer and just say learn to drive !!!

Sorry, but if I may be so bold as to say so, that's another one of your sweeping generalizations that just reinforces what many (all ?) on here have suspected for a long time, that being your basic lack of knowledge of 911 chassis dynamics, and in particular, the fundamentals of trail braking in a 911. My, my, small wonder you didn't enjoy 996 GT3 ownership ! Sheesh, you really shouldn't have wasted your money ! !

"Any form of braking is slower if one car does not need to do it !" is up there along with several other of your other "beliefs" :

Braking : Must be slower.

Cayman : Good/Fast.

Faster : Must be better.

911 : Bad/Slow.

PDK : Rubbish/Dull (unless fitted to a 458S, then it becomes brilliant)

Teeny weeny wheel spacers fitted on the front of a Spyder (or CR) : Car endowed with Mercedes F1 WO5 like front end turn in and grip.

I wonder, will you ever see that life isn't as black and white as you perceive it to be ? (except in your world, obviously) and that just because you believe something to be true (or you've convinced yourself as much) it doesn't actually mean it is true.