"Alcoholism is an illness"...

[Impasse]

Carrot said:

Are you one of those people that think the obese are a victim of society and it is not their fault?

Not necessarily. However obesity can often be a physical manifestation of a mental illness and in this respect it shares some traits with alcoholism.

[Fidgits]

I'd say it's an addiction, like any other, but is dependant on many factors...

Taking your smoking example, I was a smoker, as was my best mate, yet I was on 20 a day, he smoked a similar amount, but only when with me or other smokers... If he was at home, he never lit up... I quit, but know if I have just one, I'll be back on 20 a day, that's me, I will be addicted, he still has the occasional one with no issues, and quit with no concern or difficulty.

Nicotine is a lot more addictive in nature than alcohol, but that doesn't mean people don't get addicted, and it's not always a choice, I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people that don't enjoy a cold beer or nice glass of wine once in a while, an addict just gets addicted to the drug (and or the sensation it gives).

Personally, I'm addicted to caffeine, I know I am because I get withdrawal symptoms if I don't have it... But that's socially acceptable and not frowned upon.

But, to your point, is an addiction an illness? I would have to say yes, heroin addicts get methodone as treatment, booze, like smoking, is harder to give up because it's legal and everywhere (hell, you can't fill up your car without seeing it) so that makes it much more difficult for the addict, and while yes it's a choice to have that first drink (which is much less warned against compared to smoking) and some people can take or leave it, others get addicted, and want to drink whenever they can.

[NoVetec]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.

If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.

Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?

I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.

Some alcoholics require medical intervention when they come off the booze, and when they carry on drinking too e.g. internal bleeding.

Personally I think once people cross the line of psychological alcohol dependency into full-blown addiction it becomes an illness physically. Sometimes to a degree, sometimes much more than that.

The mental side always remains though.

[mph1977]

jas xjr said:

i reckon that lack of willpower and judgement may lead you into alcoholism . once you become an alcoholic i think , yes you are ill . i owned off licences for twenty years and saw people from all walks of life suffer the consequences of alcoholism .

it is not as cut and dried as you would like to think.

I think that covers it

once people have the liver damage and brain changes etc they are ill and are unlikely to recover fully even if they do stop drinking and remain sober.

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs to withdraw from along with benzos- Delirum Tremens is a life threatening medical emergency

[StuntmanMike]

mph1977 said:

I think that covers it

once people have the liver damage and brain changes etc they are ill and are unlikely to recover fully even if they do stop drinking and remain sober.

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs to withdraw from along with benzos- Delirum Tremens is a life threatening medical emergency

Is that right? I have a good mate that's going this way, very sad to see, he has gone from popular bloke in the pub, to not being able to go without.
Sad thing is, he cant see it at all.

[MrBarry123]

OP - just be thankful that you've never suffered anything like alcoholism.

It's very easy to judge people however if you take the time to look behind the person and into their story, you'll often find proof that it's not directly self inflicted.

[anonymous-user]

It's definitely the fatties own fault though.

Shovelling loads of food in their fat munching faces. Rubbing their big fat bellies and eying up some more cakes.

[NoVetec]

el stovey said:

It's definitely the fatties own fault though.

Shovelling loads of food in their fat munching faces. Rubbing their big fat bellies and eying up some more cakes.

Pretty much.

I think genetics plays a small part in some people finding it difficult to lose weight and finding it quite easy to gain.

But overwhelmingly it's the people's choice to get and stay fat.

[Rayy]

For me, alcoholism is an illness. The only way I can handle it is not to drink at all. However, for many the drink is an outward sign of bigger, deeper problems - too many people use drink to 'self-medicate' other mental illnesses.

Just my tuppence-worth.

[shoestring7]

Rayy said:

For me, alcoholism is an illness. The only way I can handle it is not to drink at all. However, for many the drink is an outward sign of bigger, deeper problems - too many people use drink to 'self-medicate' other mental illnesses.

Just my tuppence-worth.

The problem I have with this view is firstly that there's no pathology I know for this 'disease', and secondly (unlike cancer for example) an alcoholic can decide to get better, and do so. The behaviour may be a symptom of some other disorder like depression, but calling alcoholism a disease has the effect of absolving the 'victim' from responsibility.

And I also speak from some experience, having had my life royally screwed up by an alcoholic.

SS7

[Impasse]

But then to expand on that, surely the alcoholism is just a symptom of an underlying mental illness? It's like the comments surrounding the death of Robin Williams. Officially, he died of suicide by hanging, but that was just a by-product of something more serious. It was his depression which was the killer. Alcoholism is a similar by-product.

[hidetheelephants]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.

If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.

Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?

I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.

The alcoholic would probably die very quickly after arriving on the island; DTs are often fatal if not treated.

[FredClogs]

hidetheelephants said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.

If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.

Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?

I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.

The alcoholic would probably die very quickly after arriving on the island; DTs are often fatal if not treated.

Indeed they are, withdrawal from alcohol can be life threatening both physically and mentally. unless you've seen alcoholism up close it's very hard to appreciate quite how horrible it is.

[dandarez]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

What constitutes an illness, disease, condition etc? I have no idea of the medical definitions.

If you were trapped on a desert island and you have cancer, it would get worse and you'd die. Sooner than you would otherwise. If an alcoholic was trapped on the same island, I assume they would start to recover. If they weren't rescued for 20 yrs, the alky may have broken the habit completely.

Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?

I'm not being flippant. I really don't know.

No opinion either way to that, except if trapped on an island with the big C you wouldn't be eating any st or junk food anymore, probably only fresh fish, fruit etc so... there would be no bloody dreadful chemo or drugs... never know, you might survive, who knows? Just guess time.

However, if you were an alchi and not a drop in sight, you might just go absolutely mad and drown yourself! Just a thought, no more.

[jshell]

Carrot said:

Probably not going to make many friends on this thread, however after reading about the latest 'Gazza' event and loads of people in the news defending his 'illness' etc, this is actually a subject that angers me somewhat.

To me, whether you are addicted to something or not, you choose to do it. I was a smoker for many years (gave up two years ago), and although I was addicted, it was my choice to go out and buy the cigarettes and smoke them no matter how you look at it.

I have known friends and family to die of cancer, a proper 'illness' in it's own right. These people don't choose to have the symptoms of cancer or not, and they can't give up having cancer either.

Interested in the consensus of the forum, do you see an alcoholic as someone with an illness or a disease, or do you see them as someone who lacks willpower and judgement?

I believe it's a disease, like being a paedo is also an illness. I also think you're a tt. I reckon I've got 3 out of 3, unless someone can prove that being a paedo isn't a clinically sick mind at work. Then it's 2 out of 3.

[6th Gear]

Richard Burton on alcohol addition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgF1fzCqu-k

Yes, it's a disease.

[voyds9]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Can something be an illness if it always gets better without any medical intervention?

A cold.

[Rovinghawk]

Carrot said:

Interested in the consensus of the forum, do you see an alcoholic as someone with an illness or a disease, or do you see them as someone who lacks willpower and judgement?

You don't 'catch' alcoholism from stepping inside a pub.
You don't 'catch' alcoholism from a couple of shandies or a gulp of gin before noon.
You don't 'catch' alcoholism from an occasional session with the lads.
To become an alcoholic you generally have to work pretty hard at it.

[Mojocvh]

Carrot said:

Corpulent Tosser said:

desolate said:

I am not sure what constitutes a "proper illness"

I can be sure that a Carrot is a "proper vegetable" though.

How very childish.

Bit like your thread...

[smegmore]

I've been involved in an an alcoholic relationship. (my wife)

It is not something which I would wish on anyone, no matter how much I disliked them.

This situation brought me down from being in a very comfortable lifestyle to being almost bankrupt within the space of less than 1 year. The greatest sadness for me was that I was the last one to know what was happening, I was working overseas and earning great money for the future and my other half was ordering taxis to bring carrier bags full of drink back to my house so that she, and all her invited, so-called friends, could get pissed every day, at my expense.

A salutary lesson to all here who work away from home.

I'm not saying, of course, that all wives of husbands who are working away will do this, but beware, and check your finances regularly.

That is all.