Prospective 981 GT4 Owners Discussion Forum.

Prospective 981 GT4 Owners Discussion Forum.

TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

turbofreeFLAT6

318 posts

109 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
I think he was one of those lifestyle drivers they invite along, his readers probably travel by Etihad first class and think something overly large on his wife's finger will mean he has treated her ok. So I think he's not a good writer to base judgements on to be honest. However the ride has been termed stiff by Porsche also, and they live in Germany, so that is one thing to keep an eye out for on proper reviews

I still think it will be like pouring Jersey milk on your Frosties rather than semi skimmed though.


Edited by Gandahar on Thursday 5th March 19:31
Presumably a similar ride to the 991 GT3, which has been widely praised by serious journalists.

fioran0

2,410 posts

171 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
I doubt it. Stiffer springs, strut package on all 4 corners and higher unsprung weight to total weight will make it feel stiffer and less compliant.
How much? Guess we wait and see.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Popular track car, I expect.

PorscheGT4

Original Poster:

21,146 posts

264 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
Gandahar said:
I don't think the Cayman GT series will be able to carry a high price weighting over time like the 911 does. However the road tests are yet to come.
if you cannot buy a manual GT3 then the GT4 can only go up, maybe not £200k levels but it's going to be cheap motoring if not free.

what the next best car a 5 year old >£100k 997.2 GT3 ?


turbofreeFLAT6

318 posts

109 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
fioran0 said:
I doubt it. Stiffer springs, strut package on all 4 corners and higher unsprung weight to total weight will make it feel stiffer and less compliant.
How much? Guess we wait and see.
According to Evo: 'The Cayman GT4’s front suspension is borrowed almost entirely from the GT3. It utilises forged aluminium split wishbones so shims can be added for those looking for a pure track camber set-up, the same aluminium inverted dampers from the GT3 and 45Nm front springs (the rears are 80Nm) – a little less aggressive than the GT3.'

fioran0

2,410 posts

171 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
fioran0 said:
I doubt it. Stiffer springs, strut package on all 4 corners and higher unsprung weight to total weight will make it feel stiffer and less compliant.
How much? Guess we wait and see.
According to Evo: 'The Cayman GT4’s front suspension is borrowed almost entirely from the GT3. It utilises forged aluminium split wishbones so shims can be added for those looking for a pure track camber set-up, the same aluminium inverted dampers from the GT3 and 45Nm front springs (the rears are 80Nm) – a little less aggressive than the GT3.'
The last time EVO assessed anything technical that was more than just reading from a sheet was...never!
They cant even get units right if you quoted correctly. Nm is a measure of Torque or Joules. Its not a rate.
Spring rates are relative to weight. a 10N/mm spring on a car that weights 100kg is a very different proposition than on a car that weights 10,000kg.
So the rate is stiffer (even though the rate is unchanged) in the front. In the rear the 80N/mm is not accounting for the difference in motion ratio. This is greater with the strut package back there. The GT4 is stiffer than on the GT3 even though the GT3 uses a stiffer or equal rate on the spring itself.
As I also said. You need to then factor the ratio of unsprung weight to weight. This ratio is greater on the Cayman on the GT4 so will add to the less compliant ride.
The issue on the Cayman is still that the suspension travel needs to be limited for the strut package to work. I wonder how much of the stiffness was a requirement purely to maintain travel within this window.

swimd

350 posts

120 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
PorscheGT4 said:
if you cannot buy a manual GT3 then the GT4 can only go up, maybe not £200k levels but it's going to be cheap motoring if not free.
Maybe for RHD cars but I can almost guarantee that LHD GT4s will depreciate. Not that I care.

HokumPokum

2,049 posts

204 months

Thursday 5th March 2015
quotequote all
fioran0 said:
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
fioran0 said:
I doubt it. Stiffer springs, strut package on all 4 corners and higher unsprung weight to total weight will make it feel stiffer and less compliant.
How much? Guess we wait and see.
According to Evo: 'The Cayman GT4’s front suspension is borrowed almost entirely from the GT3. It utilises forged aluminium split wishbones so shims can be added for those looking for a pure track camber set-up, the same aluminium inverted dampers from the GT3 and 45Nm front springs (the rears are 80Nm) – a little less aggressive than the GT3.'
The last time EVO assessed anything technical that was more than just reading from a sheet was...never!
They cant even get units right if you quoted correctly. Nm is a measure of Torque or Joules. Its not a rate.
Spring rates are relative to weight. a 10N/mm spring on a car that weights 100kg is a very different proposition than on a car that weights 10,000kg.
So the rate is stiffer (even though the rate is unchanged) in the front. In the rear the 80N/mm is not accounting for the difference in motion ratio. This is greater with the strut package back there. The GT4 is stiffer than on the GT3 even though the GT3 uses a stiffer or equal rate on the spring itself.
As I also said. You need to then factor the ratio of unsprung weight to weight. This ratio is greater on the Cayman on the GT4 so will add to the less compliant ride.
The issue on the Cayman is still that the suspension travel needs to be limited for the strut package to work. I wonder how much of the stiffness was a requirement purely to maintain travel within this window.
Very informative. Now that i no longer debate a bespoke rear suspension, which it is not, I think you may be completely right about this. The one question is also whether ultra stiff means that the contact patch is better maintained during cornering and application of throttle. I think Porsche is not kidding when they position it as more hardcore than a Gt3 and only less hardcore than an RS.

I also think a lot of punters that are thinking Cayman R+ are going to be selling out after a while. I will love it as an accompaniment for my CSL cup car.

turbofreeFLAT6

318 posts

109 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
fioran0 said:
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
fioran0 said:
I doubt it. Stiffer springs, strut package on all 4 corners and higher unsprung weight to total weight will make it feel stiffer and less compliant.
How much? Guess we wait and see.
According to Evo: 'The Cayman GT4’s front suspension is borrowed almost entirely from the GT3. It utilises forged aluminium split wishbones so shims can be added for those looking for a pure track camber set-up, the same aluminium inverted dampers from the GT3 and 45Nm front springs (the rears are 80Nm) – a little less aggressive than the GT3.'
The last time EVO assessed anything technical that was more than just reading from a sheet was...never!
They cant even get units right if you quoted correctly. Nm is a measure of Torque or Joules. Its not a rate.
Spring rates are relative to weight. a 10N/mm spring on a car that weights 100kg is a very different proposition than on a car that weights 10,000kg.
So the rate is stiffer (even though the rate is unchanged) in the front. In the rear the 80N/mm is not accounting for the difference in motion ratio. This is greater with the strut package back there. The GT4 is stiffer than on the GT3 even though the GT3 uses a stiffer or equal rate on the spring itself.
As I also said. You need to then factor the ratio of unsprung weight to weight. This ratio is greater on the Cayman on the GT4 so will add to the less compliant ride.
The issue on the Cayman is still that the suspension travel needs to be limited for the strut package to work. I wonder how much of the stiffness was a requirement purely to maintain travel within this window.
Maybe you should listen to Evo's interview with Preuninger, which Evo summarised pretty accurately in their article: http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/cayman/15136/watch-po...
Preuninger says that the front axle is nearly all GT3 hardware tuned to the spec of the GT4. He says the front springs are 45Nm and the rears 80Nm, as Evo quoted. Evo's only inaccuracy is that it said the rears were a little less aggressive than the GT3, whereas Preuninger said they are rated a little less because of the mid-engine layout. If Nm is the wrong unit you should tell Preuninger he doesn't know what he's talking about, not get on your high horse about Evo, which is an outstanding magazine and has used engineers to provide technical explanations on a variety of issues.

Preuninger (and Evo) doesn't say whether whether the front springs are the same rate as the GT3. Quite possibly they are not if they have been tuned for the GT4. Even if they were, they would be relatively softer if, as I expect, the mid-engine layout places more weight on the front axle despite the lower overall weight of the car.

I cannot see anything that contradicts my comment that the ride of the GT4 is probably similar to that of the 991 GT3.

Amathus

70 posts

119 months

fioran0

2,410 posts

171 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
I cannot see anything that contradicts my comment that the ride of the GT4 is probably similar to that of the 991 GT3.
Sounds good!


nsm3

2,831 posts

195 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Same gearbox as the S/GTS (?) but the cabin is full of transmission whine because 'they have taken out the insulation' - if that isn't fabricated 'because race car', I don't know what is?

nsm3

2,831 posts

195 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
True, but I bet the 2nd batch of GTS(+) PDK potential buyers will be ok with it being refitted?

Zyp

14,673 posts

188 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
I like transmission whine - I have it in abundance.

Do you not think this has been done on the GT4 not for less weight, but for sense of occasion?
How much can a bit of Kingspan weigh?

V8KSN

4,711 posts

183 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
fioran0 said:
turbofreeFLAT6 said:
I cannot see anything that contradicts my comment that the ride of the GT4 is probably similar to that of the 991 GT3.
Sounds good!

rofl

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Zyp said:
I like transmission whine - I have it in abundance.
There's way more than I care for on the PH Porsche forum too.........

Zyp

14,673 posts

188 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
There's way more than I care for on the PH Porsche forum too.........
biggrin

DMC2

1,827 posts

210 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
shaunRS said:
997.1 GT3 Clubsport @ £80K, that's Cayman GT4 money and surely safer place to put it long term?
But you can't really compare a brand new car with a 9 year old car?!

nsm3

2,831 posts

195 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Monkey has just tweeted that he is off to test some new Cayman, so maybe something of interest shortly?

nsm3

2,831 posts

195 months

Friday 6th March 2015
quotequote all
Oh, I'm in no doubt that what he writes "pays the piper" so to speak, but I have to admit enjoying watching his wet drive in that 7.2 RS and Camaro the other day. I think if something is amiss, he will at least allude to it, but maybe not?
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED