RE: KTM 1290 Super Duke R: Review
Discussion
DodoRacing said:
Agree with all the comments about the "use case" of such a bike. It's a "we did it because we can" case. To me it's at odds with the idea of a naked bike in the first place.
110hp feels plenty on my naked bike (BMW R Ninety) and 70 mph is as fast as I comfortably want to ride due to wind blowing directly on to your chest. I'd like to see the dude doing 155 mph on a naked bike.
There seems to be a very strong variation in the level of wind blast between naked bikes. I rode the original 950 superduke, I had trouble not riding at over 100mph everywhere.110hp feels plenty on my naked bike (BMW R Ninety) and 70 mph is as fast as I comfortably want to ride due to wind blowing directly on to your chest. I'd like to see the dude doing 155 mph on a naked bike.
After test riding the 1290 and the S1000R, the 1290 is the one I would of wanted to come away with, albeit not at £14K. By the time you've added an exhaust, tail tidy ,heated grips and a decent hugger, amongst other things, its a £15k bike and that's way too much! The BMW is a bargain, with loads of kit already fitted, but it just lacked something and I didn't want it enough to buy one or wait 6 months for one. As mentioned the KTM has suffered some teething problems, but the BMW isn't without problems. The electronics resetting aren't as annoying as its made out (unless you're stopping every 5 mins)and I also noticed the front brakes felt warped on the one I rode. It doesn't feel like a big V Twin (bad thing)and had lost some of its character there. Fuel warning came on a bit abruptly and I didn't have a clue where the nearest filling station was. I probably would of bought one at £11995 and made do for a few months without the bling. 180 bhp pointless ? Yes , but who cares? 190mph sports bikes are too but it doesn't stop people buying them!. So, what did I end up buying? A £3k 2005 950 SM with some airbox and carb mods, and it brings a huge smile to my face everytime I ride it. As quick as my SMT, a lot smoother and more flickable, no debt from buying it, and won't be worrying about a little scratch or keeping it minty clean. Its not quite got 100bhp but on the road its an absolute hoot to ride and whispers naughty things in your ears. Marvellous! And 11K cheaper than a 1290.
Silver993tt said:
Have you had the following problems which seem to have hit a significant number of owners:
1) Play in the rear hub felt by moving the rear wheel by hand
2) Oil leaks from various parts of the engine
3) Build/paint quality issues
Also, KTM recommend that a quickshifter is NOT fitted to this bike. From a specification point of view that puts it well down against the BMW S1000r and that's not even taking into account the huge price difference.
KTM always like to create a "mechanical feature" in their bikes, early 640's had the "clutch bearing of doom", they solved this by introducing the "cam bearing of doom" instead, 690's had similar cam problems and more fuel injection gremlins than you could shake a wet mogwai at, 990 equally bad injection and part throttle surging, RC8's had gearbox issues, need I go on?1) Play in the rear hub felt by moving the rear wheel by hand
2) Oil leaks from various parts of the engine
3) Build/paint quality issues
Also, KTM recommend that a quickshifter is NOT fitted to this bike. From a specification point of view that puts it well down against the BMW S1000r and that's not even taking into account the huge price difference.
However mercilessly thrash them as KTM intended and they reward with the largest smiles per mile going making for an interesting trade off if you can live with the problems.
I liken it to Ducati ownership before they made them boring and reliable.
Silver993tt said:
Have you had the following problems which seem to have hit a significant number of owners:
1) Play in the rear hub felt by moving the rear wheel by hand
2) Oil leaks from various parts of the engine
3) Build/paint quality issues
Also, KTM recommend that a quickshifter is NOT fitted to this bike. From a specification point of view that puts it well down against the BMW S1000r and that's not even taking into account the huge price difference.
I have the play in the rear hub, not much though, but I was aware that buying a new model of anything I was probably going to experience some issues.....BMW have had a few s1000r's that have been at dealers under warranty for longer than the owners have had them but have kept that fairly quiet. New models of anything, cars or bikes tend to have recalls, interesting habits, or as KTM call them, TI's for the first year or so. It's not dampened my enthusiasm for the bike at all.1) Play in the rear hub felt by moving the rear wheel by hand
2) Oil leaks from various parts of the engine
3) Build/paint quality issues
Also, KTM recommend that a quickshifter is NOT fitted to this bike. From a specification point of view that puts it well down against the BMW S1000r and that's not even taking into account the huge price difference.
I've heard about the quickshifter thing but as far as I was aware that was because some people were using aftermarket 'shifters which allowed the engines to overrev and basically self destruct (I'm not very technical despite my job and happy to be corrected). I've used mine on track a couple of times this year and not felt the need for a quickshifter so no loss to me really.
In reference to the comment about over 150mph on a naked bike earlier, it's far, far easier than you'd think. The nose and clocks provide a quite incredible amount of protection, considering, and at Snetterton going up past the pits and on the main straight I was consistently seeing 160+, though I was tucking down (as a tubby fella, not very successfully though) and to be fair to the bike, track prowess is probably not it's main remit.
The bike is definitely a grower though, there's a huge depth of character to it......it does like rear tyres though
It's interesting that so many people go on about the uselessness of having "all that power" on a bike but I seldom hear people saying the same about the latest and greatest supercar offering.
I bought it because I really enjoyed the test ride, it was way better than I was expecting, and I could just about afford it. Is there any other reason needed really?
3DP said:
Other than the poorly executed electronics that seem to cause as many problems as they solve, the only issue I have with this bike is the price.
It should be £10,999. KTM tend to oversupply, so when the more sorted 2nd and 3rd year models come out, expect decent discounts.
The KTM RC8R replacement with single sided swing arm and this engine with more top end, is going to be truly epic, but unfortunately I think they'll price it at Panigale levels.
Is the RC8 replacement still happening? I thought KTM weren't going to do another one since they've announced their MotoGP project.It should be £10,999. KTM tend to oversupply, so when the more sorted 2nd and 3rd year models come out, expect decent discounts.
The KTM RC8R replacement with single sided swing arm and this engine with more top end, is going to be truly epic, but unfortunately I think they'll price it at Panigale levels.
I've got a Multistrada 1200 which I basically consider to be similar to this with a big screen and more fairing.
Lots of power (150bhp @ crank), traction control, ABS, electronic suspension.
Chopped a ZX10R in for it, and the grin I had when I test rode the Multi was bigger than any I'd had riding the 10R in the past year.
I do love it when just riding around - making progress through traffic, get the right gear, see opportunity, throttle WFO, squirt past car / lorry and slam anchors on, letting the electronics worry about tyres trying to spin up or slip.
I can hear riders saying "there's no skill in that!" and frankly I don't GAF, it makes me grin like a cheshire cat every time I go out on it, my overall speed is a lot lower than on the 10R so license is safer, and that's all I want out of riding - fun.
And I can turn the TC right down or off whilst moving
Lots of power (150bhp @ crank), traction control, ABS, electronic suspension.
Chopped a ZX10R in for it, and the grin I had when I test rode the Multi was bigger than any I'd had riding the 10R in the past year.
I do love it when just riding around - making progress through traffic, get the right gear, see opportunity, throttle WFO, squirt past car / lorry and slam anchors on, letting the electronics worry about tyres trying to spin up or slip.
I can hear riders saying "there's no skill in that!" and frankly I don't GAF, it makes me grin like a cheshire cat every time I go out on it, my overall speed is a lot lower than on the 10R so license is safer, and that's all I want out of riding - fun.
And I can turn the TC right down or off whilst moving
I've currently got a V Twin 2nd Gen Tuono Factory. Probably no more than 130hp at the rear wheel. It's got a couple of extra teeth on the rear sprocket and 1 down on the front. Will top out at over 160mph (indicated), wheelie in the first two gears off the throttle and in 3rd with a bit of clutch and at no point in time have I ever thought "I wish this bike had more power"
It doesn't need a ton of electronics to rein it in as the power is manageable by a mere mortal like myself. Thank god as being Aprilia and italian they'd only go wrong.
Just don't get this latest breed of super powerful bikes that then need a load of computers to make it controllable for people that haven't got the talent to control it.
I must be getting old
It doesn't need a ton of electronics to rein it in as the power is manageable by a mere mortal like myself. Thank god as being Aprilia and italian they'd only go wrong.
Just don't get this latest breed of super powerful bikes that then need a load of computers to make it controllable for people that haven't got the talent to control it.
I must be getting old
Harry H said:
Just don't get this latest breed of super powerful bikes that then need a load of computers to make it controllable
I'm thinking along similar lines....I quite enjoy modulating the controls.
A Tuono was on my short list, along with KTM 950 before I bought the Street (although I thought that even the Tuono might be a bit too much)
Harry H said:
Just don't get this latest breed of super powerful bikes that then need a load of computers to make it controllable
I'm thinking along similar lines....I quite enjoy modulating the controls.
A Tuono was on my short list, along with KTM 950 before I bought the Street (although I thought that even the Tuono might be a bit too much)
I trundle around on an R1150 Rockster which is really comfy, it has a tiny little fairing which deflects just a small amount of wind but it's enough to make an 85mph cruise comfy, probably because your head is out of all the fuss, just sitting in the wind so to speak while your arms are a little relieved of the pressure. Sure it's not as relaxed as an RT but what the heck.
Oddly I despatched an R850R with a bigger screen and it was horrid - the air hit my helmet full on, so maybe in this instance less is more? (Fairing, not power of course, never have too much power hahaha)
Oddly I despatched an R850R with a bigger screen and it was horrid - the air hit my helmet full on, so maybe in this instance less is more? (Fairing, not power of course, never have too much power hahaha)
Numeric said:
I trundle around on an R1150 Rockster which is really comfy, it has a tiny little fairing which deflects just a small amount of wind but it's enough to make an 85mph cruise comfy, probably because your head is out of all the fuss, just sitting in the wind so to speak while your arms are a little relieved of the pressure. Sure it's not as relaxed as an RT but what the heck.
Oddly I despatched an R850R with a bigger screen and it was horrid - the air hit my helmet full on, so maybe in this instance less is more? (Fairing, not power of course, never have too much power hahaha)
It's weird how screens work sometimes, I used to ride this ridiculous thing:Oddly I despatched an R850R with a bigger screen and it was horrid - the air hit my helmet full on, so maybe in this instance less is more? (Fairing, not power of course, never have too much power hahaha)
And that little tiny screen did the job just fine, was perfectly comfortable at 130kph freeway runs, and speeds north of that with a bit of tuck going on.
MC Bodge said:
Short screens or very tall screens work, medium height screens can produce a lot of turbulence around your head -very unpleasant.
The Triumph smoked fly screen on the Street/Speed Triple do a good job.
That's exactly what I've found. At 85 and crouched the STR screen funnels air over my shoulders while my head is happily enjoying clean air. I tried the powerbronze additional screen but got rid as all it did was funnel air directly into my head, which wasn't pleasant at all. The Triumph smoked fly screen on the Street/Speed Triple do a good job.
MC Bodge said:
How much would be "too much" for this KTM? 200bhp? 250? 300? 350?
What is the practical limit of power/torque utility for a reasonable road rider with or without electronic aids?
Would bikers be happy limited to 100bhp or even 80bhp? Would they still enjoy riding?
I reckon 100hp is ample for a sporting road bike (subject to weight of course). Yes a current full fat sports bike is great to whack open in a straight line but once the novelty wears off it's all a bit pointless. Never mind the risk of instant ban if you do it too often.What is the practical limit of power/torque utility for a reasonable road rider with or without electronic aids?
Would bikers be happy limited to 100bhp or even 80bhp? Would they still enjoy riding?
Was at Brands a little while ago watching a guy in the fast group on a naked SV650. Wide bars the lot. And apart from the main straight he was all over nearly all the other bikes. I believe 90% of litre sport bike owners would actually be quicker on something less powerful and be having more fun as they'd stand a chance of of riding the thing rather than just hanging on. Watch most of them round a circuit and I'd say only a very few get to use full throttle anywhere let alone on the public road.
Would I be happy if the authorities limited us to 100hp. No bloody way.
I had one. Bought it new in March this year. Had to sell it due to wedding expenses.
The 190bhp figure is not the highlight, the Torque at any speed in any gear is bowel bursting. As a road bike it is simply an unrivalled hooligan machine, hold a steady throttle in third gear at 100mph and winding it open creates wheelies like a MotoX bike.
But yes it all gets a bit serious at those sorts of speeds, and it was expensive, even more so if you sell it at 4000 miles like I did. But strongly recommend anyone who is in the market for one to try it, if you do, bear one thing in mind the throttle action is VERY long and its in the second 3/4 of throttle opening where the Beast lives. Many Journo's I am sure did not have the flexibility of wrist to have explored it, the thrust is shocking. However it almost needs a second handful to open the throttle fully.
When it does the feeling is unlike anything I have ever ridden I've had, 12 Years of MX racing on 450's, 2 x R1's, 1 x zx10, 3 x Busa in-excess of 100k miles commuting on superbikes over the last six years, nothing made me laugh out loud like the 1290, awesome machines.
I'll be buying the RR when its launched.
The 190bhp figure is not the highlight, the Torque at any speed in any gear is bowel bursting. As a road bike it is simply an unrivalled hooligan machine, hold a steady throttle in third gear at 100mph and winding it open creates wheelies like a MotoX bike.
But yes it all gets a bit serious at those sorts of speeds, and it was expensive, even more so if you sell it at 4000 miles like I did. But strongly recommend anyone who is in the market for one to try it, if you do, bear one thing in mind the throttle action is VERY long and its in the second 3/4 of throttle opening where the Beast lives. Many Journo's I am sure did not have the flexibility of wrist to have explored it, the thrust is shocking. However it almost needs a second handful to open the throttle fully.
When it does the feeling is unlike anything I have ever ridden I've had, 12 Years of MX racing on 450's, 2 x R1's, 1 x zx10, 3 x Busa in-excess of 100k miles commuting on superbikes over the last six years, nothing made me laugh out loud like the 1290, awesome machines.
I'll be buying the RR when its launched.
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