UK axes support for Mediterranean migrant rescue operation
Discussion
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Enricogto said:
and we abandoned in a proper mess Somalia in 1994. And that's where those people come from.
I think yoou will find that was the Americans and the Somali warlords. The UK involvment in Somalia (Operation VIGOUR) ran from early Dec 1992 to end Mar 1993 and revolved around us air dropping food to the locals.Otherwise we should also define that were the French the first to strike in Lybia
Enricogto said:
Incredible but true....
The fact is that if you ask the majority of the public opinion in Italy will agree with the UK Government's point of view. Unfortunately the Italian Govt has been under pressure by the left, the do-gooders and the Vatican to help the invaders (not migrants).
And for Axionknight, well, we heavily meddled in Lybia, but we didn't do anything to contrast revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Sudan and we abandoned in a proper mess Somalia in 1994. And that's where those people come from.
Excuse me how on earth does the EU bear any responsibility for events in Eygpt, Syria, Sudan or Somalia?The fact is that if you ask the majority of the public opinion in Italy will agree with the UK Government's point of view. Unfortunately the Italian Govt has been under pressure by the left, the do-gooders and the Vatican to help the invaders (not migrants).
And for Axionknight, well, we heavily meddled in Lybia, but we didn't do anything to contrast revolutions in Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, Sudan and we abandoned in a proper mess Somalia in 1994. And that's where those people come from.
Libya I will give you, but the vast majority of these migrants aren't Libyans.
Haven't we supported via Twitter/Fb/public statements and official views that we supported "the new wind of democracy brought by the Arab Springs"?
Well, even if we didn't use guns or tanks, we have formally supported the revolution, and trust me, the message got there!
As I said a few times on here, I fully support democracy, but you have to be ready for it, and those populations are not. For their and most importantly for our purposes, as harsh as it can sound, the dictators that were in charge before, did a good job at maintaining some form of order and controlling these fluxes.
Well, even if we didn't use guns or tanks, we have formally supported the revolution, and trust me, the message got there!
As I said a few times on here, I fully support democracy, but you have to be ready for it, and those populations are not. For their and most importantly for our purposes, as harsh as it can sound, the dictators that were in charge before, did a good job at maintaining some form of order and controlling these fluxes.
k 'em, it's not our issue, or even our waters.This problem has gone up exponentially since we fell out with, and eventually toppled Gaddafi because the EU had a deal with Libya whereby they would stop and detain African immigrants trying to make their way to Europe. So yet another problem arising due to our misadventure in Libya.
Edited by BlackLabel on Tuesday 28th October 13:33
Enricogto said:
the Pope jumped on the bandwagon, but that's another matter
to be fair I'd expect the Pope to get on-board with pontificating about this - it's pretty much his job-description! As regards the main issue - yes it is heartless but what can we do? I do like the idea of towing the boats back to N/A though. Maybe once they're there destroy the boats...
Enricogto said:
the dictators that were in charge before, did a good job at maintaining some form of order and controlling these fluxes.
When does the cycle end. So easy on the keyboard to let the rest of the world live a shadow of what we can here.Im not about flooding our countries with foreign nationals with no education but who is meant to educate them when people in power quite like these people held in idiocy under their boot.
Congrats ph is losing its humanuty. Im not for letting everyone in but why do you think dictators are a good thing?
Scum. Such scum.
Lost soul said:
Then what are you for
Education. Abolition of religion. All that.How do dictators make the country they rule a good place to live?
Im not an expert at all but shouldn't we all agree that dictators aren't good at all and to wish them on people is to trade your humanity.
MrBrightSi said:
Lost soul said:
Then what are you for
Education. Abolition of religion. All that.How do dictators make the country they rule a good place to live?
Im not an expert at all but shouldn't we all agree that dictators aren't good at all and to wish them on people is to trade your humanity.
Lost soul said:
The west has poured ££££$$$$€€€€ into Africa reaping the natural resources, bribing the dictators and politicians, and window-dressing the whole rapine spree with tax-writeoff funds for handwringing NGOs who often do more harm than good, with few results apart from filling Swiss bank accounts
EFAhidetheelephants said:
Lost soul said:
The west has poured ££££$$$$€€€€ into Africa reaping the natural resources, bribing the dictators and politicians, and window-dressing the whole rapine spree with tax-writeoff funds for handwringing NGOs who often do more harm than good, with few results apart from filling Swiss bank accounts
EFA
MrBrightSi said:
Enricogto said:
the dictators that were in charge before, did a good job at maintaining some form of order and controlling these fluxes.
When does the cycle end. So easy on the keyboard to let the rest of the world live a shadow of what we can here.Im not about flooding our countries with foreign nationals with no education but who is meant to educate them when people in power quite like these people held in idiocy under their boot.
Congrats ph is losing its humanuty. Im not for letting everyone in but why do you think dictators are a good thing?
Scum. Such scum.
I'm not advocating the permanence in power of dictators, but you have to understand, and many with you, that democracy and human rights are something you don't export or are taught, it's all part of a process that takes centuries to complete. We as the west, benefited from a process that has it roots in the Roman law, and that has really flourished in the ideals that inspired the French revolution. Before that we were exactly in the same conditions. It won't be an M16 to favour the development of democracy. And toppling dictators will only create a power vacuum that facilitates the work of terrorists, slave merchants and general insecurity. On both sides of the Med.
As for the Ozzie's poster, it's quite well known and cited as an example in Italy, but good luck in finding a politician in the whole EU willing to apply the same rules.
Enricogto said:
BrightSi,
I'm not advocating the permanence in power of dictators, but you have to understand, and many with you, that democracy and human rights are something you don't export or are taught, it's all part of a process that takes centuries to complete. We as the west, benefited from a process that has it roots in the Roman law, and that has really flourished in the ideals that inspired the French revolution. Before that we were exactly in the same conditions. It won't be an M16 to favour the development of democracy. And toppling dictators will only create a power vacuum that facilitates the work of terrorists, slave merchants and general insecurity. On both sides of the Med.
As for the Ozzie's poster, it's quite well known and cited as an example in Italy, but good luck in finding a politician in the whole EU willing to apply the same rules.
Sounds like you think we could help them on their way with some sort of new roman empire.I'm not advocating the permanence in power of dictators, but you have to understand, and many with you, that democracy and human rights are something you don't export or are taught, it's all part of a process that takes centuries to complete. We as the west, benefited from a process that has it roots in the Roman law, and that has really flourished in the ideals that inspired the French revolution. Before that we were exactly in the same conditions. It won't be an M16 to favour the development of democracy. And toppling dictators will only create a power vacuum that facilitates the work of terrorists, slave merchants and general insecurity. On both sides of the Med.
As for the Ozzie's poster, it's quite well known and cited as an example in Italy, but good luck in finding a politician in the whole EU willing to apply the same rules.
hidetheelephants said:
Whatever is done is a sticking plaster of one kind or another; the only way to reduce the migration to a trickle is for africa to develop something other than a barter economy. If these people could get jobs, housing, electricity and running water most of them would stay at home. Some are fleeing persecution, but they are a minority; a lot are the young and educated seeking a better life, and by doing so helping to prevent their countries developing.
Spot on IMO Africa have been given lots and lots of money for a very long long time and they still can't seem to sort there own house out. personally I would stop giving them endless amounts of money and force them to sort there own problems out I'm sick of the blackmail starving fly ridden kid adverts If there own are not interested then why should we give a flying they have had ample handouts and still the rot continues
Time to let them get on with it
Enricogto said:
BrightSi,
I'm not advocating the permanence in power of dictators, but you have to understand, and many with you, that democracy and human rights are something you don't export or are taught, it's all part of a process that takes centuries to complete. We as the west, benefited from a process that has it roots in the Roman law, and that has really flourished in the ideals that inspired the French revolution. Before that we were exactly in the same conditions. It won't be an M16 to favour the development of democracy. And toppling dictators will only create a power vacuum that facilitates the work of terrorists, slave merchants and general insecurity. On both sides of the Med.
As for the Ozzie's poster, it's quite well known and cited as an example in Italy, but good luck in finding a politician in the whole EU willing to apply the same rules.
Thanks for replying and i admit i was a bit over-passionate.I'm not advocating the permanence in power of dictators, but you have to understand, and many with you, that democracy and human rights are something you don't export or are taught, it's all part of a process that takes centuries to complete. We as the west, benefited from a process that has it roots in the Roman law, and that has really flourished in the ideals that inspired the French revolution. Before that we were exactly in the same conditions. It won't be an M16 to favour the development of democracy. And toppling dictators will only create a power vacuum that facilitates the work of terrorists, slave merchants and general insecurity. On both sides of the Med.
As for the Ozzie's poster, it's quite well known and cited as an example in Italy, but good luck in finding a politician in the whole EU willing to apply the same rules.
However, we have had a part in Africa, in the past whether it was our ancestors or not (I doubt it was mine, we've probably always been serfs) we went there and as someone quoted resource stripped them.
Im not saying blah blah give it back, but shouldn't we give more than just money. Maybe allowing an environment where education is allowed to flourish would in time curb a lot of the countries problems.
The Australia thing is laughable, i wonder how many people believe that their ancestors came on some mythical first fleet to an empty country?
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