Identifying driver....

[Mr Taxpayer]

Taff107 said:

agtlaw said:

Does either of you have an iPhone?

The wife does......

WTF has an mePhone got to do with it?

[agtlaw]

Mr Taxpayer said:

WTF has an mePhone got to do with it?

This was explained earlier. In any event, see this:

http://metro.co.uk/2014/09/28/how-your-iphone-has-...

[Vaud]

One other phone related thought OP - check your phones or phone bills. If either of you made or received calls / sent texts around that time, it will at least tell you who wasn't driving?

[shakotan]

Taff107 said:

Chaps, I'm in a bit of a quandary and honestly don't know what to do. I recently received a Notice of intended prosecution for doing 60 in a 50 on the M1. Both my wife and I drove that morning but neither of us recall exactly who was driving at the time of the offence (neither of us are particularly bothered about 3 points and a fine as it and will be the first time being caught in 20+ years. You pays her money,you take her chance)
Now, as we don't know who was driving, how the hell am I supposed to state who the driver was???? Considering it states that providing a false statement is an offence in itself.
I have requested and received the picture taken however it is taken from the rear and offers no information whatsoever.
What the hell am I supposed to do?

When you say both driving, do you mean you took it in turns to drive a route together, or you both used the car independently of each other on the same route at different times.

For scenario A, you would know who was driving when you left the house, and you only would have switched drivers at a rest stop along the way. It is inconceivable that you swapped drivers whilst in motion, therefore you will know the exact point you switched over (I'm guessing at a Services), and the NIP will have a location on it for the offence. It will be easy to tell if the place you were caught speeding is before or after the place you switched drivers.

For scenario B, there will also be a timestamp on the NIP, therefore assuming you didn't do a short journey on the M1 and then travel home for your wife to do exactly the same journey almost immediately afterwards, it will again be quite easy to determine who was driving.

[Vaud]

Also check for fuel receipts, etc and who paid might help.

[BertBert]

fatjon said:

S 172 Para 4

"A person shall not be guilty of an offence by virtue of paragraph (a) of subsection (2) above if he shows that he did not know and could not with reasonable diligence have ascertained who the driver of the vehicle was."

IIRC that is the obligation of the RK and stat defence for the RK. If the RK (who gets asked first), says it wasn't me but (after his/her reasonable DD) was person x. Then person x gets the S172 notice. They have to say whether it was them or not. they do not have the obligation to exercise reasonable diligence to find out who it was if not them.

As for the OP's question, I too am struggling with the "can't remember where we swapped" argument. I can't imagine it would go well in court.

Bert

[MrPicky]

How accurate is the locus on the NIP, does it just describe a stretch of road that could include a number of different change-over places. If it does then write and ask them to give you a more accurate position, this could enable you to remember when the change-over took place.

[Taff107]

That's all the information given on the Nip and calling them is a waste of time.
I drove first from York. We did swap over at some services but neither of us recall which particular one it was. It was a case of pull off, swap seats and carry on. I took over again about an hour from home. I said in the original post that although it does involve a small fine and as these will be my first ever points, I don't give a damn about them. It amazes me that some people on here still tend to write with a holier-than-thou, accusatory overtone in their reply.

I've put my details down as the driver as quite frankly, it's not worth the hassle trying to establish who the actual driver was and the potential increase in points / fine due to the delay.

Any process that nudges you towards committing a further offence to prevent an increase in penalty needs looking at. I suppose I can chalk it down as experience of what a half-assed bag of ste that the system is and all of which, could have been negated by using the sensible option of using forward facing cameras.

[walm]

Taff107 said:

what a half-assed bag of ste that the system is and all of which, could have been negated by using the sensible option of using forward facing cameras.

I agree. Motorcyclists should be able to go at whatever speed they like.

[Terzo123]

Taff107 said:

................. and calling them is a waste of time.
........................

Why is it a waste of time? It sorted the issue out for me in seconds.

[CAFEDEAD]

Taff107 said:

Any process that nudges you towards committing a further offence to prevent an increase in penalty needs looking at. I suppose I can chalk it down as experience of what a half-assed bag of ste that the system is and all of which, could have been negated by using the sensible option of using forward facing cameras.

I find it all pretty distasteful.

I'm about to pay the tax for the heinous crime of 63mph on this stretch of dual carriageway:



Fourth time at 3 points for me. I hope they'll let me know when this stops being about anything other than the money. Incidentally, every time has been on a Sunday. Maybe it's just religious fundamentalism in disguise.

[DaveCWK]

I'm sure I read a case recently similar to this. The couple took it to court, demonstrated that they had exhausted all reasonable avenues In trying to recall who exactly was driving, and as they couldn't state with certainty who was, neither received any punishment.

[silentbrown]

I think you were driving.

There's only one services on the M1 between York and Rotherham: Wooley Edge.
It's well north of Rotherham, and only 36 miles from the centre of York.

Seems unlikely you would have swapped drivers that soon into a long journey - unless your start was much further away, or you'd been seriously held up by traffic. Next services at Woodall seem a more likely changeover point.

Google Maps!

Go and look at the Streetview images - anything look familiar, at either of them? (obviously if it's a regular route for you that wouldn't help...)

Back to the smartPhone thing : The phone doesn't have to be able to tell which side of the car you were sitting - it just has to be able to tell which services you stopped at to swap drivers. Androids can do this too.

[The Mad Monk]

"I find it all pretty distasteful.

I'm about to pay the tax for the heinous crime of 63mph on this stretch of dual carriageway:"

I think you are being asked to pay for the heinous crime of not paying attention.



"Fourth time at 3 points for me.
[/quote]"

I am surprised that you haven't learnt your lesson.

[CAFEDEAD]

The Mad Monk said:

I am surprised that you haven't learnt your lesson.

I have. £60/£100 every few years to get places faster is fantastic value for money. Lesson learned.

[Vipers]

The Mad Monk said:

"I find it all pretty distasteful.

I'm about to pay the tax for the heinous crime of 63mph on this stretch of dual carriageway:"

Nasty barstewards, from a gov web site quote:

Speed Enforcement

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance, which suggests that enforcement will normally occur when a driver exceeds the speed limit by a particular margin. This is normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph. It also sets guidelines for when it would not be appropriate to issue a fixed penalty notice but to issue a summons instead (see below). Note that these are guidelines and that a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.

Speed limit: 20 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 24 mph
Summons: 35 mph

Speed limit: 30 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 35 mph
Summons: 50 mph

Speed limit: 40 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 46 mph
Summons: 66 mph

Speed limit: 50 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 57 mph
Summons: 76 mph

Speed limit: 60 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 68 mph
Summons: 86 mph

Speed limit: 70 mph
ACPO charging threshold: 79 mph
Summons: 96 mph

[Red Devil]

CAFEDEAD said:

I'm about to pay the tax for the heinous crime of 63mph on this stretch of dual carriageway:

Really? The NSL on a d/c is 70, nor would one have hazard posts like those on the right hand side.
It looks like a normal 2 lane road to me. For you to be fingered for 63 it must be a 50 limit.
I don't see any repeaters though. Where on the A40 is it?

[walm]

silentbrown said:

There's only one services on the M1 between York and Rotherham: Wooley Edge.
It's well north of Rotherham, and only 36 miles from the centre of York.

Thanks for doing the work - clearly it wasn't worth the bother for the OP.
It's the government's fault after all for his and his wife's incredibly poor memory and inability to do 3 mins of due diligence.
Incredible.

[Moonhawk]

Red Devil said:

Really? The NSL on a d/c is 70, nor would one have hazard posts like those on the right hand side.
It looks like a normal 2 lane road to me. For you to be fingered for 63 it must be a 50 limit.
I don't see any repeaters though. Where on the A40 is it?

The yellow reflective markers to the right of image give it away as a DC - the other carriageway must be the other side of the tree line.

The fact that it is a dual carriageway means nothing in determining the speed limit. I know DCs that have limits as low as 30mph on them.

A Google maps link might help.

[Moonhawk]

CAFEDEAD said:

I have. £60/£100 every few years to get places faster is fantastic value for money. Lesson learned.

And the rest - points/speed awareness courses have a detrimental effect on insurance premiums for several years.