This whole 30FPS BS
Discussion
For those of you not away of this, recently Microsoft and Sony have both decided to put pressure on developers to cap their games to 30fps. From what I understand the PS4 is capable of 60fps @ 1080p and the XboxOne is only capable of 30fps @ 1080p and they are both not happy that PC ports are running above 60fps.
So far the guys making Uncharted 4 have said they will not cap the game and plan to have it running at 60fps on the PS4. Obviously a lot of PC developers have said they will also carry on as they wish. However ubisoft have stepped in to say the next Assassins Creed game will be capped on all platforms to 30fps as apparently 30fps is the most realistic to the human eye (wtf).
With both Nvida and AMD working on 8k graphics cards as well as 4k monitors capable of running over 60fps isn't this all just a load of sour grapes?
I can't see the graphics card companies being too happy about all this as they obviously make money by selling better and better graphic cards and one way to make a demand is to have high load games running at fast frames. If developers take this away then why would Nvidia or AMD want to give Sony & MS graphic cards for the next consoles?
So whats your thoughs?
So far the guys making Uncharted 4 have said they will not cap the game and plan to have it running at 60fps on the PS4. Obviously a lot of PC developers have said they will also carry on as they wish. However ubisoft have stepped in to say the next Assassins Creed game will be capped on all platforms to 30fps as apparently 30fps is the most realistic to the human eye (wtf).
With both Nvida and AMD working on 8k graphics cards as well as 4k monitors capable of running over 60fps isn't this all just a load of sour grapes?
I can't see the graphics card companies being too happy about all this as they obviously make money by selling better and better graphic cards and one way to make a demand is to have high load games running at fast frames. If developers take this away then why would Nvidia or AMD want to give Sony & MS graphic cards for the next consoles?
So whats your thoughs?
People who buy expensive graphics cards do so to hit a minimum of 60fps on full/ultra quality, with some aiming for 120hz for some of the faster monitors.
PC users certainly aren't going to be happy with a 30fps limit. Most of the PC games I know of don't have any caps at all, they'll run as fast as they can.
PC users certainly aren't going to be happy with a 30fps limit. Most of the PC games I know of don't have any caps at all, they'll run as fast as they can.
When did Sony or MS start telling developers to cap at 30FPS?
First I've heard of it and I'm a pretty avid gamer. There have been issues with the current gen of consoles where the XB1 has struggled to keep some titles at 60FPS and the developer has dropped it to 30FPS to keep gameplay smooth, but I've never heard of either Sony or MS telling developers that they should be aiming for 30FPS only.
This gen the PS4 is slightly more powerful which is why a few titles have been 1080P @ 60FPS on the PS4, and a slightly lower resolution or FPS for the XB1.
EDIT: As for Naughty Dog and Uncharted, as said already, then can do what they like, 1080P @ 60FPS I believe, as it is a PS exclusive title anyway.
First I've heard of it and I'm a pretty avid gamer. There have been issues with the current gen of consoles where the XB1 has struggled to keep some titles at 60FPS and the developer has dropped it to 30FPS to keep gameplay smooth, but I've never heard of either Sony or MS telling developers that they should be aiming for 30FPS only.
This gen the PS4 is slightly more powerful which is why a few titles have been 1080P @ 60FPS on the PS4, and a slightly lower resolution or FPS for the XB1.
EDIT: As for Naughty Dog and Uncharted, as said already, then can do what they like, 1080P @ 60FPS I believe, as it is a PS exclusive title anyway.
Edited by HRL on Thursday 30th October 13:10
Youtube video of MarioKart 8 at 60fps 1080p.. Looks smooooooth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zPm3SSj6W8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zPm3SSj6W8
Has this come out on the back of the Watchdogs graphics issue. I understand they were hobbled on the PC release vs consoles but it was a relatively simple hack to open them back up again.
Sony asking devs to limit to 30fps sounds like bull to me if the PS4 can do 60fps and the Xone only 30fps why would they pander to their rivals.
I just found this. http://www.30vs60.com/ finding it hard to tell the difference. In some cases I thought the 30fps had more fidelity. I concede they may play smoother.
Sony asking devs to limit to 30fps sounds like bull to me if the PS4 can do 60fps and the Xone only 30fps why would they pander to their rivals.
I just found this. http://www.30vs60.com/ finding it hard to tell the difference. In some cases I thought the 30fps had more fidelity. I concede they may play smoother.
I personally prefer 60fps, although 30fps can look almost as good with decent motion blur (e.g. CryEngine). In twitch games then 60fps is desirable to minimise input lag as well as improve persistence of vision, it's easier to track a smoothly moving target than a jerky one.
Of course at 30fps you can draw a LOT more detail so it's a trade-off.
Some games (Rage, etc) use smart-vsync which prevents the jarring 60->30fps transition you see in some games when they can't quite make the 16ms (1/60th sec) deadline. This results in odd sounding frame rates like 59fps or 45fps, it works very well.
Of course at 30fps you can draw a LOT more detail so it's a trade-off.
Some games (Rage, etc) use smart-vsync which prevents the jarring 60->30fps transition you see in some games when they can't quite make the 16ms (1/60th sec) deadline. This results in odd sounding frame rates like 59fps or 45fps, it works very well.
Edited by scorp on Thursday 30th October 14:12
Steven_RW said:
RobGT81 said:
Plus Oculus Rift is suppose to be ideal at above 60fps I believe.
Rob on the money. John Carmack keynote speach 2014 from Oculus Rift. He wants very high refresh rates and thus FPS to match.I don't think this will happen, so I am not concerned.
Regards,
Steven_RW
My understanding was that Sony wasn't the one doing the pushing for 30 FPS at all, but were in fact having to kow-tow to the developers themselves. It went along the lines of Microsoft demanding for "parity" from cross-console developers or else - the reason for which being that as soon as the Playstation version of, say, a Ubisoft game is seriously visibly better and a higher spec, then the Xbox console sales will go out the window as they concede second best.
So the developers feel the pressure from MS, can't risk the loss of their support and so go along with their instructions, and so Sony end up with games that could have been better on their console. But when it comes to exclusives, the developers can do what they like.
Infamous 2 runs at 60 I'm sure, Uncharted hopefully will. Project CARS should do too am I right? What exclusive titles does Xbox have that run at 60? Genuine question.
Actually Project CARS will be an interesting one - a cross platform, crowd funded game that - I imagine - the developers would want to look as good as possible on whatever console it plays on. I seriously doubt they would pare it down on PS4 if the XBox can't perform as well. So the specs on that on either console on launch day might actually settle the argument.
ETA: Here's a link to where I picked that up from.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ubisoft-Engineer-...
I find it hard to believe that Sony think they will lose sales to PC. I don't see why they would campaign for 30fps across the board if their console could do better.
So the developers feel the pressure from MS, can't risk the loss of their support and so go along with their instructions, and so Sony end up with games that could have been better on their console. But when it comes to exclusives, the developers can do what they like.
Infamous 2 runs at 60 I'm sure, Uncharted hopefully will. Project CARS should do too am I right? What exclusive titles does Xbox have that run at 60? Genuine question.
Actually Project CARS will be an interesting one - a cross platform, crowd funded game that - I imagine - the developers would want to look as good as possible on whatever console it plays on. I seriously doubt they would pare it down on PS4 if the XBox can't perform as well. So the specs on that on either console on launch day might actually settle the argument.
ETA: Here's a link to where I picked that up from.
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Ubisoft-Engineer-...
I find it hard to believe that Sony think they will lose sales to PC. I don't see why they would campaign for 30fps across the board if their console could do better.
Edited by Wrathalanche on Thursday 30th October 16:44
It's worth noting the best results tend to fall between 30-60fps, notably as the developers doing the work on these titles are finding that players find 60fps looks somewhat unnatural (the comments about The Hobbit films being 48fps are relevant here).
PC gamers will just have to get on with getting on. PC gaming does not command the market share or the sheer number econonic grunt to make it a serious primary development platform without paying mind to the home consoles where the real money is.
PC gamers will just have to get on with getting on. PC gaming does not command the market share or the sheer number econonic grunt to make it a serious primary development platform without paying mind to the home consoles where the real money is.
Baryonyx said:
PC gaming does not command the market share or the sheer number econonic grunt
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps4-dominates-xbox-one-in-ubisoft-platform-sales-c/1100-6423280/It's much closer than I expected. That may be due to the relative high cost of the ps4 etc and the ps3/360 still cannibalising the sales of the newer platforms.
scorp said:
DK2 is using 75hz.
Hi Scorp,Yes he mentions that DK2 is 75hz and they are modifying the samsung note 4 to something like 70 hz so far but the last 5hz is from a proper over clock that wont be the way a typical samsung will be sold/released to public if they stick with that display.
He then goes on to mention the desire for sub mm precision and refresh rates and he requests much higher refresh rates of 120hz. Stating that 90hz is the level that most people see no judder especially in their periphery.
He mentions that he is lobying the 'small screen tech' to have higher hz, so lets see...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqzpAbK9qFk
Regards,
Steven_RW
Thanks
Steven_RW
Edited by Steven_RW on Thursday 30th October 19:58
budfox said:
It's all a load of tosh.
You need around 25fps for motion to appear smooth but 50fps (achieved via interlacing in PAL television) to stop the eye responding to flicker.
Everything else is marketing.
Interlacing? On a modern display? Are you posting from the 90s or something?You need around 25fps for motion to appear smooth but 50fps (achieved via interlacing in PAL television) to stop the eye responding to flicker.
Everything else is marketing.
60fps is a must for me, I'l happily turn down graphics settings to maintain it, especially in racing games and shooters. People say you cant see more than 30 fps and so on but its b
ks, 60fps looks so mush more pleasing to the eye. I havent seen 120 Hz games running in person but they are another step up apparently.
In Chrome you can now watch some YouTube videos at 60 fps, watch them and see the difference.
ks, 60fps looks so mush more pleasing to the eye. I havent seen 120 Hz games running in person but they are another step up apparently. In Chrome you can now watch some YouTube videos at 60 fps, watch them and see the difference.
Just to add my humble opinion on this subject.
I own a PS4 a Vita and I'm just setting up my living room/htpc, so I feel I have an unbiased opinion but...
Personally I've always preferred PC gaming, regretted getting rid of my old gaming PC, so I've lumped together a system for under £400 by using some 2nd parts which will enable me to play a ridiculously huge amount of games at a resolution/detail/fps that I tweak them to. I reckon I'll end up selling the ps4 soon - If these next gen consoles are already making compromises in resolution and fps limits then just think what it'll be like in a couple of years.
I'd rather have medium/high settings at 1080p at 60fps instead of a 30fps minimum/cap. I notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps and I'd rather have slightly lower visuals to maintain that 60fps feel.
My 400 quid pc:
Thermaltake mini ITX case with 220W PSU
Asrock H67M mini ITX motherboard
i5 2500 CPU
8GB hyper x RAM
Nvidia GTX 750 Ti
120GB SSD
1.5TB HDD
Windows 8.1
Xbox 360 controller
I own a PS4 a Vita and I'm just setting up my living room/htpc, so I feel I have an unbiased opinion but...
Personally I've always preferred PC gaming, regretted getting rid of my old gaming PC, so I've lumped together a system for under £400 by using some 2nd parts which will enable me to play a ridiculously huge amount of games at a resolution/detail/fps that I tweak them to. I reckon I'll end up selling the ps4 soon - If these next gen consoles are already making compromises in resolution and fps limits then just think what it'll be like in a couple of years.
I'd rather have medium/high settings at 1080p at 60fps instead of a 30fps minimum/cap. I notice the difference between 30fps and 60fps and I'd rather have slightly lower visuals to maintain that 60fps feel.
My 400 quid pc:
Thermaltake mini ITX case with 220W PSU
Asrock H67M mini ITX motherboard
i5 2500 CPU
8GB hyper x RAM
Nvidia GTX 750 Ti
120GB SSD
1.5TB HDD
Windows 8.1
Xbox 360 controller
budfox said:
It's all a load of tosh.
You need around 25fps for motion to appear smooth but 50fps (achieved via interlacing in PAL television) to stop the eye responding to flicker.
Everything else is marketing.
You don't need interlacing to reach 50fps on a CRT, you just don't send odd fields, this will prevent the shimmering effect. This results in a ~250 line display instead of ~512+, almost all 8bit/16bit game machines did this, a well known example would be SuperMario on the NES, runs at 50/60fps, but not interlaced. I spent years working on this kind of stuff back in the day.You need around 25fps for motion to appear smooth but 50fps (achieved via interlacing in PAL television) to stop the eye responding to flicker.
Everything else is marketing.
Edited by scorp on Friday 31st October 02:03
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