Retrieval from sump...help?
Discussion
Is it possible to drop the rear of the sump a couple of centimeters to get a magnetic pick up tool in without disturbing the scavenge pump timing chain? I was thinking if I removed the bolts, maybe there would be enough movement. I dropped a shim from no 6 exhaust down the oil return gallery at the back of the head and heard it drop to the sump. What a s*d. Was the last shim to do and had blocked off all the plug holes and timing chain cover, but did not see/missed the rear oil drain hole and that's where it fell.
I haven't run the engine so I know the shim is still down that end. Any other good ideas, short of dropping the engine...
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I haven't run the engine so I know the shim is still down that end. Any other good ideas, short of dropping the engine...
C
The sump wont go anywhere...the rear crank seal bolts to both the block and the sump...and it sits behind the flywheel
Could you use a magnetic pickup down through the rear oil drain. Problem is in the bottom of the sump there's a steel baffle with slots so either the magnet will simply find that, or the shim will have gone to the bottom through the slots. But I think its the only choice. A long inspection borescope might get down there. Difficulty is there is a big angle to get round in the head casting to start down the drain into the sump.
Could you use a magnetic pickup down through the rear oil drain. Problem is in the bottom of the sump there's a steel baffle with slots so either the magnet will simply find that, or the shim will have gone to the bottom through the slots. But I think its the only choice. A long inspection borescope might get down there. Difficulty is there is a big angle to get round in the head casting to start down the drain into the sump.
Thanks. Yes see what you mean. I did manage to get a pick up grabber down the oil drain gallery right down to the sump, but as it was only a grabber it was a very remote chance of getting it. A long magnet might do it, but I suspect based on what I heard it hit the baffle and then fell through, so its going to depend if the magnet goes where the shim went.
Hmmm.
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Hmmm.
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If you cut out a piece of the bell house like this: http://tvr-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6817&... , you can undo the sump oil drain bolt and get into the sump there.
Theoretically if its only dropped down under its own weight and you moved nothing, is there no way you can some how suck it back up.
It would have to drop down and then roll.. not impossible, but the shim would be oil coated by the point it got to the bottom of the return so shouldn't be terribly free moving.
It would have to drop down and then roll.. not impossible, but the shim would be oil coated by the point it got to the bottom of the return so shouldn't be terribly free moving.
Thanks guys for the suggestions. For sure I'm not going to run the engine until the shim is out. Not worth the risk to the scavenge pump. The worst case is I have to drop the gearbox and can then get the sump dropped down.
However, I had a bit of an idea over night - I think there is a good chance that the shim has gone under the baffle - I heard it hit the baffle and bounce, so I've just ordered a superstrength neodymium block magnet off ebay, which ought to pull about 4lb through a 15mm spacing of the sump. I'm going to take out the bung at the end of the drain channel (as suggested) and If I can work the shim down to the channel then I hope I can retrieve it with an ordinary magnet pickup or a finger. Will also try a boroscope in to see if I can see it before starting.
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However, I had a bit of an idea over night - I think there is a good chance that the shim has gone under the baffle - I heard it hit the baffle and bounce, so I've just ordered a superstrength neodymium block magnet off ebay, which ought to pull about 4lb through a 15mm spacing of the sump. I'm going to take out the bung at the end of the drain channel (as suggested) and If I can work the shim down to the channel then I hope I can retrieve it with an ordinary magnet pickup or a finger. Will also try a boroscope in to see if I can see it before starting.
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Actually was going to use the magnet from outside underneath the sump to drag the shim. It's meant to be powerful enough to work at that distance. Also got a 5mm 1m flexi boroscope and light from work with magnet on the end. If I can't get it out with all this stuff..... Where's that surgeon who did the keyhole op on me a couple of year's ago.
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Got it out! Took a day and a half of fishing with the boroscope with a magnet on the end. I could see it through the drain gallery plug aperture but couldnt reach it, so got it from the top in the end. The supermagnet Im sure would have helped a lot, but when it arrived there was a hole in the box and no magnet and I suspect postman pat has it permanently stuck to the floor of his van.
So its certainly possible to get the shim out without dropping the engine.
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So its certainly possible to get the shim out without dropping the engine.
C
Got it out! Took a day and a half of fishing with the boroscope with a magnet on the end. I could see it through the drain gallery plug aperture but couldnt reach it, so got it from the top in the end. The supermagnet Im sure would have helped a lot, but when it arrived there was a hole in the box and no magnet and I suspect postman pat has it permanently stuck to the floor of his van.
So its certainly possible to get the shim out without dropping the engine.
C
So its certainly possible to get the shim out without dropping the engine.
C
No - I managed to do it without cutting the bellhousing. I got the drain plug out with a cut down 1/2" allen key and ring spanner - it was bl**dy tight, but loosened up in the end. Problem was I couldn't get the boroscope round the corner enough to get to the shim from the drain plug aperture.
She's all back together and fired up.
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She's all back together and fired up.
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Yes language was a bit foul at the time, and wife steered clear for a bit - think I taught her a few new words . But it was almost worth it for the high when it came out!
All jobs done, big service, new engine mounts (left hand one was in two bits), improved insulation round left hand mount, new crankshaft sensor (to see if it cures the odd fault code on this, although it was probably earth related), new trinary switch (A/C now works), all earthing points cleaned and stainless bolts/nuts on them. Chassis cleaned. Good for a few winter runs.
Really happy with the condition of the engine, insides were spotless including sump, and piston crowns. Leak down test spot on. Valve clearances needed very minimal adjustment, more me being fussy, and no follower/cam scuffing. Engine has done 19,500 miles and is a late 55 plate 3.6L.
Only remaining job now is the AVIC sat nav which I think needs a new laser/pickup.
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. But it was almost worth it for the high when it came out!All jobs done, big service, new engine mounts (left hand one was in two bits), improved insulation round left hand mount, new crankshaft sensor (to see if it cures the odd fault code on this, although it was probably earth related), new trinary switch (A/C now works), all earthing points cleaned and stainless bolts/nuts on them. Chassis cleaned. Good for a few winter runs.
Really happy with the condition of the engine, insides were spotless including sump, and piston crowns. Leak down test spot on. Valve clearances needed very minimal adjustment, more me being fussy, and no follower/cam scuffing. Engine has done 19,500 miles and is a late 55 plate 3.6L.
Only remaining job now is the AVIC sat nav which I think needs a new laser/pickup.
C
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