Why is the Lotus Esprit not appreciating in value??
Discussion
Just about all the criticisms aimed at the Esprit here are answered by a late V8.
The interior is great, a/c keeps you cool, the engine sounds great and has plenty of power (mine was dynoed at 380bhp), they handle very well, the gear change is much improved - especially with decent rod ends on the cables, the twin plate clutch is fairly light and smooth. Best car I have ever owned.
Why did I sell it? Hmmm.. best get another one. Drove Maserati 4200, Porsche 996 X50, Maserati Merak, Lotus Exige S, and all seemed slow and boring by comparison.
Hugely undervalued. Buy now before it's too late.
The interior is great, a/c keeps you cool, the engine sounds great and has plenty of power (mine was dynoed at 380bhp), they handle very well, the gear change is much improved - especially with decent rod ends on the cables, the twin plate clutch is fairly light and smooth. Best car I have ever owned.
Why did I sell it? Hmmm.. best get another one. Drove Maserati 4200, Porsche 996 X50, Maserati Merak, Lotus Exige S, and all seemed slow and boring by comparison.
Hugely undervalued. Buy now before it's too late.
robinessex said:
The only people who have concerns about their car constantly increasing in value are those who buy as an investment. So if you buy/have the car because it is what it is, it's your pride and joy, then just use and cherish it, and don't bother what it is/might be worth.
The Pits said:
To finish, a Championship Gold S2. The S2 remains one of the most unappreciated Esprits but to my eyes arguably the best looking of the lot.
Never really been a fan of the esprit, but my word hats changed my mind. Stunning!Edited by The Pits on Thursday 20th November 19:37
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Never really been a fan of the esprit, but my word hats changed my mind. Stunning!
Looks very 'Italian' for want of a better word doesn't it? Here's another one with added black bits.
And then there's the marcasite interior...
and there's me thinking this madness would end after buying a 1981 Turbo!
It's possible that this very car in the picture above (or at the very least exactly like it) might be coming up for sale soon. Finding the money is one thing. Finding the words to tell Mrs Pits is quite another!
rob.e said:
The Pits said:
I agree with V8 FOU, the V8s are fantastic.
Very quick and still on the pace today.
If i had the cash i'd buy mine back in a heartbeat.Very quick and still on the pace today.
Contemporary road tests nearly always expressed amazement at the lack of lag in Turbo Esprits, so I was a bit surprised to read Pat's comments, but he has driven them and I have not. I am guessing it might feel good for a turbo of its day but still feels like a turbo?
I believe the Esprit installation was unusual in that the turbo pressurised the carbs, which meant a shorter inlet path or something. Could have made a difference I guess.
I believe the Esprit installation was unusual in that the turbo pressurised the carbs, which meant a shorter inlet path or something. Could have made a difference I guess.
It makes a huge difference. I'll give Pat some artistic licence because he was wrote a very entertaining piece with a 'this is crap, that is crap... but I love them' angle.
Throttle lag and low speed response were primary targets during development and the result turned out to be the most innovative part of the car. The delivery pipe from turbo to carbs was found to be critical and was made as short as possible and oval shaped for this reason, they experimented with downdraught carbs as well for an even shorter inlet.
Of course there are better modern examples of turbocharging! But the car was way ahead of its time for the 80's and I was hoping for some endearing period turbo lag. Power delivery is very linear and it does its best work at high rpm where most turbos start running out of puff. Turbo pressure is a modest 8psi so there is no obvious moment when the turbo 'cuts in'. There is noticeably more lag in later fuel injected Esprits. Even the twin turbo V8s were much more obviously turbo charged.
Of all the turbo charged cars I have owned - 2 Integrales, Esprit Turbo SE, Esprit V8 GT, Nissan GTR R34, Lotus Carlton, Subaru 22B, Sapphire Cosworth, Escort Cosworth - with the possible exception of the Lotus Carlton the 1981 Turbo Esprit has by far the least lag.
Throttle lag and low speed response were primary targets during development and the result turned out to be the most innovative part of the car. The delivery pipe from turbo to carbs was found to be critical and was made as short as possible and oval shaped for this reason, they experimented with downdraught carbs as well for an even shorter inlet.
Of course there are better modern examples of turbocharging! But the car was way ahead of its time for the 80's and I was hoping for some endearing period turbo lag. Power delivery is very linear and it does its best work at high rpm where most turbos start running out of puff. Turbo pressure is a modest 8psi so there is no obvious moment when the turbo 'cuts in'. There is noticeably more lag in later fuel injected Esprits. Even the twin turbo V8s were much more obviously turbo charged.
Of all the turbo charged cars I have owned - 2 Integrales, Esprit Turbo SE, Esprit V8 GT, Nissan GTR R34, Lotus Carlton, Subaru 22B, Sapphire Cosworth, Escort Cosworth - with the possible exception of the Lotus Carlton the 1981 Turbo Esprit has by far the least lag.
Edited by The Pits on Friday 21st November 15:12
My comments about turbo lag were pretty tongue in cheek. As was my observation that Esprits sound like a Ford Escort....
Yes, of course there is turbo lag. You notice it in exactly the same way that you would on a modern turbo diesel.
They are pretty gutless at very low revs when the turbo isn't spinning, then the revs mount with indecent haste and the car pulls like a train. The power band is rather un-diesel like, because the motor revs freely out to 7000rpm and beyond.
I understand that the lag is more noticeable on the Turbo HCs than on the earlier Giugiaro Turbos, but it is not unpleasant and they come onto boost very progressively.
Yes, of course there is turbo lag. You notice it in exactly the same way that you would on a modern turbo diesel.
They are pretty gutless at very low revs when the turbo isn't spinning, then the revs mount with indecent haste and the car pulls like a train. The power band is rather un-diesel like, because the motor revs freely out to 7000rpm and beyond.
I understand that the lag is more noticeable on the Turbo HCs than on the earlier Giugiaro Turbos, but it is not unpleasant and they come onto boost very progressively.
There's lag and there's lag though.. My daily driver is a turbo diesel and the only time you get lag is when you've been off the throttle for a while and suddenly demand a fair bit of throttle, which is quite a rare situation that I only get once a week at most. Even then you get something initially, the n/a response, which is enough for cornering etc. It's the same for many modern petrol turbos too (the 135i for example). Then there's the traditional turbo performance cars of yesteryear, many of which give you enough throttle response to corner smoothly and then only present a lag on the straights, when of course it doesn't matter because you're not using the throttle to balance and control the car. I have driven cars where the lag interfered with control of the car (Noble M400 for example in some corners), but by no means does having a turbo mean lag or lag that actually interferes.
Sorry - as you were!
Sorry - as you were!
Before I begin to gush about how much I love these cars I would like to point out that the fact these cars havent rocketed in prices, making them something for rich men to buy and lock up in their garages, is a good thing. All my life i've wanted an Esprit be it an original essex or the early V8's with the OZ racing rims. Being a young lad I will never be able to afford one if they go the way of classic 911's and the like. I would also like to say I really enjoyed Junglehop and The Pit's posts!
I grew up as a young lad in the early 90's with a father who worked for lotus, so naturally I grew up around the likes of the S3 Esprit's and S1 Elise's, to me they were and still are one of the best manafacturers out there. I have always loved the Chapman philosophy, the passion he put into every car and the results that he got out of each of his creations. Theres nothing quite like a sunny english morning, a long winding B road and a Lotus to enjoy it with!
I must admit after reading through the 14 pages i'm surprised that no one (aside from a mention of an ECU) has mentioned the Sport 350! Maybe not one for the purists, lets face it Guigiaro's esprit seems to be the most revered, but in my opinion a great in it's own right!
Esprits have always been a strange subject, like many people have mentioned, they have had their problems in the early years, and anyone who has had to change the gearbox (something which requires on some models to have the whole engine removed) will know the expense that they can create. But any car can have these issues, you can pick up a 930 or a 308 and have just as many issues and probably spend more to rectify them ! And I use the term supercar correctly, the 350 could manage 0-60 in 4.3 seconds (though most claim a more realistic 4.7) and keep going until 175mph. Quick by todays standard, not bad for a 14 year old car.
So why are they not appreciating? Because in my opinion Lotus are for the purists, those who want to feel the road they are driving on, those who want a car that you can truly enjoy, one that puts a smile on your face; if you want something to showcase how much money you have or how much money you could have if you sell it then yeah go for a ferrari or a porsche and remember to pick your jaw off of the floor when an Esprit leaves you standing at the lights!
I grew up as a young lad in the early 90's with a father who worked for lotus, so naturally I grew up around the likes of the S3 Esprit's and S1 Elise's, to me they were and still are one of the best manafacturers out there. I have always loved the Chapman philosophy, the passion he put into every car and the results that he got out of each of his creations. Theres nothing quite like a sunny english morning, a long winding B road and a Lotus to enjoy it with!
I must admit after reading through the 14 pages i'm surprised that no one (aside from a mention of an ECU) has mentioned the Sport 350! Maybe not one for the purists, lets face it Guigiaro's esprit seems to be the most revered, but in my opinion a great in it's own right!
Esprits have always been a strange subject, like many people have mentioned, they have had their problems in the early years, and anyone who has had to change the gearbox (something which requires on some models to have the whole engine removed) will know the expense that they can create. But any car can have these issues, you can pick up a 930 or a 308 and have just as many issues and probably spend more to rectify them ! And I use the term supercar correctly, the 350 could manage 0-60 in 4.3 seconds (though most claim a more realistic 4.7) and keep going until 175mph. Quick by todays standard, not bad for a 14 year old car.
So why are they not appreciating? Because in my opinion Lotus are for the purists, those who want to feel the road they are driving on, those who want a car that you can truly enjoy, one that puts a smile on your face; if you want something to showcase how much money you have or how much money you could have if you sell it then yeah go for a ferrari or a porsche and remember to pick your jaw off of the floor when an Esprit leaves you standing at the lights!
Edited by DaveC92 on Friday 28th November 14:49
The Pits said:
This picture has cost me a lot of time and money!
I love the look of these. This, or one in Copper Fire Red Metallic (the other For Your Eyes Esprit) would do me nicely. I went to drive one the other day, but it was in the garage having work done on it and I'm slightly worried about a car that's been at a garage six months and isn't healthy!Desire for classic designs seems to be a bit of a zeitgeist thing. Suddenly cars that were overlooked become the very thing a stylish chap should (or at least think they should) be seen in.
Pagoda Mercs were in the 'oh yeah those things, bit odd looking and slow' doldrums. Suddenly they are super stylish and tres chic and commanding very strong ££££.
I think the wedgie designs like this and the TVR wedges will have their time.
Pagoda Mercs were in the 'oh yeah those things, bit odd looking and slow' doldrums. Suddenly they are super stylish and tres chic and commanding very strong ££££.
I think the wedgie designs like this and the TVR wedges will have their time.
I've just seen an RS500 Cosworth up for sale for £57k. With 39,000 miles it's low mileage but not exactly super freaky and they're not super rare either with 500 being made.
I mean, they only made 64 Esprit Sport 300s in total, the car has race pedigree, rave reviews in the press, handling an RS500 could only dream of and 300bhp straight out of the box - yours for £50k.
Or how about the even rarer Sport 350 (they only made 42!) with its bespoke twin-turbo V8, carbon fibre interior, magnesium wheels, incredible brakes and high-spec suspension for £35k?!
I mean, they only made 64 Esprit Sport 300s in total, the car has race pedigree, rave reviews in the press, handling an RS500 could only dream of and 300bhp straight out of the box - yours for £50k.
Or how about the even rarer Sport 350 (they only made 42!) with its bespoke twin-turbo V8, carbon fibre interior, magnesium wheels, incredible brakes and high-spec suspension for £35k?!
The Pits said:
I mean, they only made 64 Esprit Sport 300s in total, the car has race pedigree, rave reviews in the press, handling an RS500 could only dream of and 300bhp straight out of the box - yours for £50k.
To be fair the RS500 has better race pedigree than the Lotus, I believe it was very successful in both the BTCC and ETC. I don't remember watching the Esprit racing on BBC Grandstand as nipper! Apart from that, it doesn't make sense but RS tax out weighs any common sense!
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