A6 C6 3.0T avant handling
Discussion
Any advice on how to make this car handle better, especially reduce the understeer?
This is my first Audi and I have to say I'm very disappointed with the dynamics, I don't expect it to be a drivers car but compared to our 5 series it's pants.
I don't want to go down coilovers, anti roll bars etc but happy to make simple modifications (geo, shocks and spring, tyres etc)
Currently it's running 235 width 18" Pirelli's with S-line suspension. The car is 3 years old and has 40k odd miles with suspension components in good condition.
Main aim is to improve the front end and just make it a bit quicker A to B.
I've been considering moving to 19's and keeping the 18's as winter wheels, I'm a little concerned about worsening and already poor ride so upgrading to Bilstein B12's/Koni FSD's have crossed my mind.
All input appreciated/
This is my first Audi and I have to say I'm very disappointed with the dynamics, I don't expect it to be a drivers car but compared to our 5 series it's pants.
I don't want to go down coilovers, anti roll bars etc but happy to make simple modifications (geo, shocks and spring, tyres etc)
Currently it's running 235 width 18" Pirelli's with S-line suspension. The car is 3 years old and has 40k odd miles with suspension components in good condition.
Main aim is to improve the front end and just make it a bit quicker A to B.
I've been considering moving to 19's and keeping the 18's as winter wheels, I'm a little concerned about worsening and already poor ride so upgrading to Bilstein B12's/Koni FSD's have crossed my mind.
All input appreciated/
Firstly 235s are wrong for that car with an 18" wheel, it should be wearing a 245/40/18 all round. If you've 235s they may have too low a load rating also.
Check pressures and geo first, check anti-roll bar bushes (A6s wear them quickly). They are setup to nose gently into understeer on the very limit but I've never managed this on the road this side of an icy roundabout. You'd need to be flying along for it to be an issue.
Check pressures and geo first, check anti-roll bar bushes (A6s wear them quickly). They are setup to nose gently into understeer on the very limit but I've never managed this on the road this side of an icy roundabout. You'd need to be flying along for it to be an issue.
Dr G said:
Firstly 235s are wrong for that car with an 18" wheel, it should be wearing a 245/40/18 all round. If you've 235s they may have too low a load rating also.
Check pressures and geo first, check anti-roll bar bushes (A6s wear them quickly). They are setup to nose gently into understeer on the very limit but I've never managed this on the road this side of an icy roundabout. You'd need to be flying along for it to be an issue.
You're right, they're 245/40/18 P zeros. The Mrs drives the car 90% of the time but the occasion where I drive during a longer journey I always feel disappointed with the dynamics. I've checked the pressures, all well there.Check pressures and geo first, check anti-roll bar bushes (A6s wear them quickly). They are setup to nose gently into understeer on the very limit but I've never managed this on the road this side of an icy roundabout. You'd need to be flying along for it to be an issue.
I'm going to see this on saturday with a view to trade up -
http://www.jardinemotors.co.uk/audi/used-cars/5903...
It seems keenly priced and the Mrs likes the colour.
Dr G you seem to be well informed when it comes to Audi's, can you tell me whether dynamically the RS6 is going to deliver relative to the 3.0T?
Like I said previously I'm not looking for a hair on fire drivers car but for example our 550i is not as agile as an M5 but you can hustle is down a Welsh A road, brake late and get on the power early. This is what I was expecting from the A6 but it's just very numb + understeery.
scherzkeks said:
Understeer on public roads ... 
You know those roads that Evo do their tests of their COTY and other supercars, the roads worth driving hours to get to...well I live there so it's not hard to make cars go beyond their ability while staying well within the speed limits. Thanks for the input though, appreciated.Its an Audi it will understeer the majority of them are no where near as nice to drive as a BMW unfortunately 
My B7 A4 S Line understeers horribly almost as bad as my Mk4 Golf was and I didn't think that was possible!
The V10 RS6 are comically quick in a straight line but will still default to under-steer if push it enough you are probably better going back to a 5 series estate to be honest
My B7 A4 S Line understeers horribly almost as bad as my Mk4 Golf was and I didn't think that was possible!
The V10 RS6 are comically quick in a straight line but will still default to under-steer if push it enough you are probably better going back to a 5 series estate to be honest
Babw said:
You're right, they're 245/40/18 P zeros.
Genuinely, I've never liked those bloody things. They may have stickers all over F1 cars but P-Zeros in every iteration I've found disappointing. We used to run them on a track car (they were free) that suffered a bit of understeer in the dry and was like ice skating in the wet (tyre pressures and geo always perfect).I much prefer all/any of the Pilot Sport 3, Conti sport 5 and Goodyear Eagle F1.
If the Pirellis still have life 'put up' until they're low then have a specialist look over suspension for any worn bushes, a proper four wheel alignment session and a set of good quality rubber.
You're never going to make it 'darty' on turn in but they should feel nicely surefooted even at speed.
RS6? Don't know. The couple of times I've tried I've bailed out at 'scary fast'; at which point the car seemed not to care. RS6s do a marvellous job of arguing with the laws of physics right up until the point you're going backwards, upside across a field at 190.
Dr G said:
I much prefer all/any of the Pilot Sport 3, Conti sport 5 and Goodyear Eagle F1.
I'd add Michelin Super Sports to that list also - liking them over the PS2s I had on the S8 before in 20s and they're wearing very well as well as giving good turn in.Had Pirellis on our LCR225 when it was new - admittedly 10 years ago nearly now - and vowed never to have them again. Poor in the dry and bloody awful in the wet!
Well there we go, I've never owned Pirelli's before but I guess you can never assume with tyres.
I run Pilot Super Sports on all the other cars (which are all sensible BMW) I assumed Pirelli's work well with Audis.
I'll see how the RS6 feels and go from there, trying some new tyres would be much cheaper!
I run Pilot Super Sports on all the other cars (which are all sensible BMW) I assumed Pirelli's work well with Audis.
I'll see how the RS6 feels and go from there, trying some new tyres would be much cheaper!
I think you just have to either accept it as it is an enjoy it for what it does or move away from Audi, the RS6 doesn't fair much better in handling terms and shows it limits a lot quicker.
I sold my S4 avant as I just couldn't get one with the way you have to drive them, I just simply preferred the way the BMW handled in every day driving, just felt nicer 'to me'.
I did have a 3.2 A6 Quattro and loved that, but had it on 225 17" wheels and in SE guise and didn't expect much from it, therefore it never disappointed.
I did however swap the rear anti roll bar for a much thicker one, and that dialled out a bit of understeer, but not completely.
I sold my S4 avant as I just couldn't get one with the way you have to drive them, I just simply preferred the way the BMW handled in every day driving, just felt nicer 'to me'.
I did have a 3.2 A6 Quattro and loved that, but had it on 225 17" wheels and in SE guise and didn't expect much from it, therefore it never disappointed.
I did however swap the rear anti roll bar for a much thicker one, and that dialled out a bit of understeer, but not completely.
Babw said:
Well there we go, I've never owned Pirelli's before but I guess you can never assume with tyres.
I run Pilot Super Sports on all the other cars (which are all sensible BMW) I assumed Pirelli's work well with Audis.
I'll see how the RS6 feels and go from there, trying some new tyres would be much cheaper!
Depends on the model but generally Dunlop Sport Maxx or Continental Sport Contact 3s are AO approved for S models mainly.I run Pilot Super Sports on all the other cars (which are all sensible BMW) I assumed Pirelli's work well with Audis.
I'll see how the RS6 feels and go from there, trying some new tyres would be much cheaper!
Looking in Elsawin suggests yours could've come on Conti SC2, Pirelli P Zero Rosso or Michelin PS2
gizlaroc said:
He went to great lengths before telling me that I was an idiot for thinking my S4 Avant understeered compared with my CSL and that on the road there is no difference.
You can feel the difference in a f
king car park!!
I presume he owns and S4!
No, I laughed at you claiming your S4 understeered heavily on a public road. Particularly due to the fact that you write as though you, the driver, had no role in this event. You can feel the difference in a f
king car park!! I presume he owns and S4!
I await suggestions for sway bars, lowering kits, expensive and maladjusted coil-over suspensions and the like to "fix" the "problem."
scherzkeks said:
No, I laughed at you claiming your S4 understeered heavily on a public road. Particularly due to the fact that you write as though you, the driver, had no role in this event.
I await suggestions for sway bars, lowering kits, expensive and maladjusted coil-over suspensions and the like to "fix" the "problem."
The fact of the matter is, when going into corners you had to slow down to lower speeds than you could take the same corner in the 335i, 123d or the M3. I await suggestions for sway bars, lowering kits, expensive and maladjusted coil-over suspensions and the like to "fix" the "problem."
The fact the front end would not pull back into the corner without slowing down is it understeering.
gizlaroc said:
The fact of the matter is, when going into corners you had to slow down to lower speeds than you could take the same corner in the 335i, 123d or the M3.
The fact the front end would not pull back into the corner without slowing down is it understeering.
So your problem is corner entry speed? Hm, what could you do about that? Slow down on entry? Trail brake? The fact the front end would not pull back into the corner without slowing down is it understeering.
The idea that you are pushing the car to its "limits" on a public road is comical. The limit is so high, that driver error is far more likely. Why would you drive an AWD chassis like a RWD one and expect it to behave identically?
scherzkeks said:
So your problem is corner entry speed? Hm, what could you do about that? Slow down on entry? Trail brake?
The idea that you are pushing the car to its "limits" on a public road is comical. The limit is so high, that driver error is far more likely. Why would you drive an AWD chassis like a RWD one and expect it to behave identically?
I wonder if he'd have the same issue with a rival AWD product...?The idea that you are pushing the car to its "limits" on a public road is comical. The limit is so high, that driver error is far more likely. Why would you drive an AWD chassis like a RWD one and expect it to behave identically?
When some complain about "understeer", what they often mean is that they feel that the car is nose heavy and reluctant to turn in, rather than the car actually ploughing straight on with the front wheels turned. I felt the former with the old S3 on the road but the latter at Donington.
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