Taking legal action against employers

[GT03ROB]

I see a lot of threads on here with people having work issues & the stock response is often go legal. It's got me wondering. A lot of industries are very small and word spreads fast. If somebody goes legal against an employer, what has been the experience of how that has impacted future job prospects. I've always taken the view that it would make you un-employable, but thats based on nothing but gut instinct.

Anyone any experiences they'd like to share?

[TurricanII]

Any employer who discounts a potential employee based on them having sucessfully taken something to tribunal is a dummy and best avoided in any event, so it is not something you should worry about. In a successful tribunal the judge has agreed that the employer had failings.

As a small owner/manager employer I want to take on the best person for the job with the best interpersonal skills and work ethic. I have two years to dismiss an employee for no reason other than 'it's not working out', which is more than enough time to assess the attitude of the employee. Legal obligations to employees are not very hard to learn/meet.

Reasonable people know that there bad managers/company owners out there with no concept of treating employees properly, so it is unsurprising that some will have been to tribunal. It should have no bearing on the potential quality of the employee. It might be a different story for larger organisations obviously.

If however you could read the written tribunal decision and see evidence that that the employee behaved like an idiot and the tribunal dismissed their case then this would be useful in weeding out idiots. I am not sure if all UK tribunal decisions are online though.

[HenryJM]

Hmm, I'd say if you have a problem with an employer go and find another job then resign. If you have been dismissed then, in the main, focus on getting another job.

Whilst I wouldn't rule out employing someone who is going to or been to tribunal it's rarely going to be a positive to choosing them over another candidate.

[HenryJM]

A six figure award is also incredibly unlikely to happen, general payments are much less than that and these days if you lose there's not insignificant costs to pay.

[HenryJM]

swerni said:

The settlement is relative to income.

Yes it is, if you earn half a million a year it can be a big number, but for most it isn't quite so large. The other factor is how big an error it was, it is rarely 100% fault in one direction or the other.

[HoHoHo]

Unfortunately I believe it's far too easy to go legal against an employer sometimes simply out of spite.

Defence costs can rack up and are quoted at an average of circa £10k with little or no recourse against the employee taking the action should the case be dropped. It is also a complete joke that no win no fee solicitors can be used who may have a complete disregard for deadlines and the entire process, however if an employer slips by just one day on any deadlines he may be found guilty by default regardless of the fact you may actually be totally innocent.

[HenryJM]

Well these days it does incur a cost to make a claim, I forget the figures but the number of claims made has fallen somewhat.

As for the norm, under £12k is average on the award for unfair dismissal so whilst it is a sum it's not massive in the general scheme of things.

[HoHoHo]

HenryJM said:

Well these days it does incur a cost to make a claim, I forget the figures but the number of claims made has fallen somewhat.

As for the norm, under £12k is average on the award for unfair dismissal so whilst it is a sum it's not massive in the general scheme of things.

It's not a lot and varies on the type of case.

[Troubleatmill]

Do you really want the aggro, stress and the risk to your health?

Expect to get a lot of money worries and sleepless nights.

[HoHoHo]

Troubleatmill said:

Do you really want the aggro, stress and the risk to your health?

Expect to get a lot of money worries and sleepless nights.

Are you talking to the employee or employer?

Employee = little stress, little financial outlay, probably sleeps well

Employer = mucho stress, £'000's in costs regardless of outcome and sleepless nights

[HenryJM]

HoHoHo said:

Are you talking to the employee or employer?

Employee = little stress, little financial outlay, probably sleeps well

Employer = mucho stress, £'000's in costs regardless of outcome and sleepless nights

An employee registering a claim will pay £160 for a type A or £250 for a type B. So this is the employee paying to claim against their employer. If the case gets to a hearing it will cost an additional £230 or £950 depending on the type. In this context a type A is largely about unpaid wages whilst things like unfair dismissal is type B.

So as an employee you are now paying £1200 to take it to a hearing. On top of that you have any legal costs you may negotiate with your legal representative if you want one.

As for stress, well that is largely dependent on the person and the case, I doubt that there are that many employees at hearings that are without stress as opposed to a lot of employers who are just doing their jobs. But it will vary from case to case.

NOTE: The charges above were introduced in July 2013, before that it was free.

Edited by HenryJM on Wednesday 12th November 08:51

[HoHoHo]

Aside from the tribunal fees there are of course the lovely no win, no fees lawyers who possibly offer more hope than there might be knowing if there's any settlement whatsoever they'll get their fee.

In my view if an employee takes their employer to a tribunal and loses or is prepared to settle out of court they should pay all fees for both sides. It's far too easy to claim whatever when f-all has actually happened and as you are no doubt aware a lot of employers will settle prior to the court hearing simply because you don't know which way the hearing will fall.

[HoHoHo]

swerni said:

HoHoHo said:

Aside from the tribunal fees there are of course the lovely no win, no fees lawyers who possibly offer more hope than there might be knowing if there's any settlement whatsoever they'll get their fee.

In my view if an employee takes their employer to a tribunal and loses or is prepared to settle out of court they should pay all fees for both sides. It's far too easy to claim whatever when f-all has actually happened and as you are no doubt aware a lot of employers will settle prior to the court hearing simply because you don't know which way the hearing will fall.

If the employer is prepared to make an offer and settle out, why should the onus be on the employee to pay the cots.
By offering to settle out they are admitting defeat, regardless of who is right.

That makes no sense at all.

No, not necessarily admitting defeat.

pm sent.

[blindswelledrat]

TurricanII said:

Any employer who discounts a potential employee based on them having sucessfully taken something to tribunal is a dummy and best avoided in any event, so it is not something you should worry about.

THis is only true in an industry where the skills are in high demand.
In the real world if you have 3 potential candidates for a job who are of similar calibre, you can instantly discount someone who as done this as a potential risk. Your implication that just because a judge has ruled in their favour, then they are completely in the right and the employer is in the wrong is misleading. It is rarely black and white.

[HoHoHo]

blindswelledrat said:

Your implication that just because a judge has ruled in their favour, then they are completely in the right and the employer is in the wrong is misleading. It is rarely black and white.

This

[TurricanII]

blindswelledrat said:

Your implication that just because a judge has ruled in their favour, then they are completely in the right and the employer is in the wrong is misleading. It is rarely black and white.

I didn't intend to imply that the employee is *completely* right, I said that the judge has found failings in the previous employer.

If a potential new employer hears on the grapevine about an employee getting paid out then that suggests the previous employer failed somehow. We can't assume much else without seeing the tribunal decision. Of course in many cases the tribunal payout has been reduced due to the poor conduct of the employee, but unless you can get hold of the tribunal decision then it's tough to find that out.

The OP's question was does a tribunal process hinder future job prospects. I do think that relatively few people/positions might be affected, but if the hiring manager feels like it then of course a CV could go in the bin if associated with a tribunal claim.

[EnthusiastOwned]

I had a case for unfair dismissal many years ago but I decided not to follow it up for the same reasons, will it make me unemployable if prospected employees find out?

Looking back it was the last time I worked in that industry and I have never (or will) asked for a reference from the company anyway. I should have screwed them to the wall. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

[Troubleatmill]

HoHoHo said:

Troubleatmill said:

Do you really want the aggro, stress and the risk to your health?

Expect to get a lot of money worries and sleepless nights.

Are you talking to the employee or employer?

Employee = little stress, little financial outlay, probably sleeps well

Employer = mucho stress, £'000's in costs regardless of outcome and sleepless nights

Employee.
Damage to employer - minimal in the grand scheme of things.

Reputation damage to the employee if things don't go to plan - much more consequential.

[HoHoHo]

Troubleatmill said:

HoHoHo said:

Troubleatmill said:

Do you really want the aggro, stress and the risk to your health?

Expect to get a lot of money worries and sleepless nights.

Are you talking to the employee or employer?

Employee = little stress, little financial outlay, probably sleeps well

Employer = mucho stress, £'000's in costs regardless of outcome and sleepless nights

Agreed on both counts

Providing the word gets out about the employee!



Employee.
Damage to employer - minimal in the grand scheme of things.

Reputation damage to the employee if things don't go to plan - much more consequential.

[mp3manager]

GT03ROB said:

I see a lot of threads on here with people having work issues & the stock response is often go legal. It's got me wondering. A lot of industries are very small and word spreads fast. If somebody goes legal against an employer, what has been the experience of how that has impacted future job prospects. I've always taken the view that it would make you un-employable, but thats based on nothing but gut instinct.

Anyone any experiences they'd like to share?

I'm on the verge of taking my employer to an industrial tribunal for disability discrimination and I've went from a new employee to a formal grievance in 5 months.

Had the grievance meeting last week and my manager held his hands up and said, 'yes, that shouldn't be happening' and HR agreed. A bit late mind you, as I've complained several times in the past but they just ignored it.

As for any future job prospects, there are none, due to my limited mobility, so couldn't care less about having it on my CV, as I'll never work again, if this goes all the way.