**** Abu Dhabi Grand Prix **** (contains spoilers)
Discussion
Europa1 said:
It goes back longer than 15 years - the Lotus twin-chassis car - genius interpretation of the rules or a breach? Strangely every other team decided "breach". The Brabham fan car - banned on "safety grounds" - ie it spat up stones and other debris.
Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Oh I agree, hence my arbitrary timeline. All teams cheat, maximise grey areas, etc - to a greater or lesser extent. I just get frustrated with comments like "it makes RB hard to like" - when they are all at it. Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Aside from Marussia - I couldn't find any notes of them being DQ'd.
If the FIA stripped down every car on the grid and went line by line for every item, I would lay serious money on the majority failing.
Vaud said:
Europa1 said:
It goes back longer than 15 years - the Lotus twin-chassis car - genius interpretation of the rules or a breach? Strangely every other team decided "breach". The Brabham fan car - banned on "safety grounds" - ie it spat up stones and other debris.
Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Oh I agree, hence my arbitrary timeline. All teams cheat, maximise grey areas, etc - to a greater or lesser extent. I just get frustrated with comments like "it makes RB hard to like" - when they are all at it. Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Aside from Marussia - I couldn't find any notes of them being DQ'd.
If the FIA stripped down every car on the grid and went line by line for every item, I would lay serious money on the majority failing.
Europa1 said:
Red Bull are hard to like because of Christian Horner's whingeing
To be honest the current crop of TPs are weak on personality.I liked Whitmarsh and Stefano Domenicali. But Boullier/Dennis, Ferrari's head of US car sales, Horner, etc all leave me cold.
Exceptions: Frank/Clare Williams (independent constructor racing to the core), Wolff/Lowe (I adore their directness on the inter-team rivalry), and Graham Louden.
The latter delivered one of the most passionate and moving statements about F1 - in the context of Jules. Massive, massive respect for a man that had been through the ultimate highs and lows of a season; any team would be lucky to have him on their leadership team.
Mermaid said:
SmoothCriminal said:
Mermaid said:
Scuffers said:
might be reading too much into this BUT!
Williams are almost 10Kmh faster, add in DRS is going to be interesting.
Massa payback for Hamilton? Hamilton cannot take the same risks as Massa.Williams are almost 10Kmh faster, add in DRS is going to be interesting.
I really do think the image of Merc has been changed by their sporting approach ( and yes, dominance) for the better.
so, to have a driver powered by one of your engines ruin the promise of an extraordinary race would be vey bad. I have no doubt that this years customers, and next years customers have been told to keep back. It should be one helluvae spectacle. It will be a real shame for someone to spoil it
Any other sport if someone is found cheating, then their past winning performances are all looked at. Cyclists have blood samples held for years, just in case dope testing ever catches up with the cheaters.
Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
suffolk009 said:
Any other sport if someone is found cheating, then their past winning performances are all looked at. Cyclists have blood samples held for years, just in case dope testing ever catches up with the cheaters.
Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
Or any teams? Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
I doubt they all still exist. Every part from every race is not kept. Some are broken in accidents, some are sold for charity - there might be a few, but by no means all.
is every team complaint at every race for every aspect by the letter of the rule book? No.
Europa1 said:
It goes back longer than 15 years - the Lotus twin-chassis car - genius interpretation of the rules or a breach? Strangely every other team decided "breach". The Brabham fan car - banned on "safety grounds" - ie it spat up stones and other debris.
Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
The fan car was not banned. Bernie agreed to withdraw it.Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Vaud said:
To be honest the current crop of TPs are weak on personality.
I liked Whitmarsh and Stefano Domenicali. But Boullier/Dennis, Ferrari's head of US car sales, Horner, etc all leave me cold.
Exceptions: Frank/Clare Williams (independent constructor racing to the core), Wolff/Lowe (I adore their directness on the inter-team rivalry), and Graham Louden.
The latter delivered one of the most passionate and moving statements about F1 - in the context of Jules. Massive, massive respect for a man that had been through the ultimate highs and lows of a season; any team would be lucky to have him on their leadership team.
A very strong case could be put forward that Mclaren need someone like Graham Louden to be honest. I liked Whitmarsh and Stefano Domenicali. But Boullier/Dennis, Ferrari's head of US car sales, Horner, etc all leave me cold.
Exceptions: Frank/Clare Williams (independent constructor racing to the core), Wolff/Lowe (I adore their directness on the inter-team rivalry), and Graham Louden.
The latter delivered one of the most passionate and moving statements about F1 - in the context of Jules. Massive, massive respect for a man that had been through the ultimate highs and lows of a season; any team would be lucky to have him on their leadership team.
Scuffers said:
Gary C said:
Why did merc go out on supersofts in q1 ?
Quite a loud cheer from our stand when nico got pole, hopefully we willbe able to out shout them tomorrow !
Few mistakes from hamilton, but done all he actually needs
why not?Quite a loud cheer from our stand when nico got pole, hopefully we willbe able to out shout them tomorrow !
Few mistakes from hamilton, but done all he actually needs
they need the primes for the race, only need one set of options, the set they start on.
Right, breakfast in Abu dhab mall across the road, then head to the track about 3pm local. Seats in the stand on the second Drs zone, will wave to all PH fans, let's hope for a legendary race and a lh win !
I don't mind Lewis not winning the race, just as long as he gets enough points for the WDC...
As unsporting as it is, if Nico suffers a mechanical issue that put him out of the race, I won't be too upset, I can't help but think if it were not for Monaco and Italy that Lewis might just have enough points in the bag that the double points today would have made no difference. That said, we are where we are.
As unsporting as it is, if Nico suffers a mechanical issue that put him out of the race, I won't be too upset, I can't help but think if it were not for Monaco and Italy that Lewis might just have enough points in the bag that the double points today would have made no difference. That said, we are where we are.
Europa1 said:
Vaud said:
Europa1 said:
It goes back longer than 15 years - the Lotus twin-chassis car - genius interpretation of the rules or a breach? Strangely every other team decided "breach". The Brabham fan car - banned on "safety grounds" - ie it spat up stones and other debris.
Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Oh I agree, hence my arbitrary timeline. All teams cheat, maximise grey areas, etc - to a greater or lesser extent. I just get frustrated with comments like "it makes RB hard to like" - when they are all at it. Red Bull are being punished for breaking the 11th Commandment.
Aside from Marussia - I couldn't find any notes of them being DQ'd.
If the FIA stripped down every car on the grid and went line by line for every item, I would lay serious money on the majority failing.
'Cheating' or alternate rule interpretation has always been an interesting factor, from the Renault hidden traction control (oh, sorry that's just legacy code in the ECU!) to the mclaren? Which started the race above the minimum weight, then dumped several pints of 'excess coolant' before the start !
Sometimes you think, very inventive, well done (f duct) and sometimes it's blatant. This flexi wind seems to fall into the second category
Gary C said:
Niall on head, he even has a whingey face !
'Cheating' or alternate rule interpretation has always been an interesting factor, from the Renault hidden traction control (oh, sorry that's just legacy code in the ECU!) to the mclaren? Which started the race above the minimum weight, then dumped several pints of 'excess coolant' before the start !
Sometimes you think, very inventive, well done (f duct) and sometimes it's blatant. This flexi wind seems to fall into the second category
Semantics.'Cheating' or alternate rule interpretation has always been an interesting factor, from the Renault hidden traction control (oh, sorry that's just legacy code in the ECU!) to the mclaren? Which started the race above the minimum weight, then dumped several pints of 'excess coolant' before the start !
Sometimes you think, very inventive, well done (f duct) and sometimes it's blatant. This flexi wind seems to fall into the second category
Every team is pushing every single area that they can imagine and fund. The more money you have, the more imaginative stuff you can create.
Its always been part of the game.
Vaud said:
suffolk009 said:
Any other sport if someone is found cheating, then their past winning performances are all looked at. Cyclists have blood samples held for years, just in case dope testing ever catches up with the cheaters.
Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
Or any teams? Would it be too difficult to go and check the Red Bulls front wings from the last four years?
I doubt they all still exist. Every part from every race is not kept. Some are broken in accidents, some are sold for charity - there might be a few, but by no means all.
is every team complaint at every race for every aspect by the letter of the rule book? No.
williamp said:
I think Merc have done very well allowing both drivers to race. Lots of kudos and good will. Especially compared to Ferrari and red bull, where they had a very definite number 1 driver, and the number 2 could not possibly interfere with the result. Allowing both drivers to race has given us a classic year, and result of which is that tomorrows race is one of the most anticipated in years.
I agree. This year could so easily have been the most boring ever, if Merc had directed their drivers like Red Bull or Ferrari. Instead, this could possibly be one of the best seasons we have had in decades. suffolk009 said:
Sure, but what I'm getting at is, surely it is now Red Bull's responsibility to provide evidence that the front wings they used this season where to a different design. If they can't then they've been using illegal wings all year and should be excluded from the whole season.
How would that impact the current points standings? suffolk009 said:
Sure, but what I'm getting at is, surely it is now Red Bull's responsibility to provide evidence that the front wings they used this season where to a different design. If they can't then they've been using illegal wings all year and should be excluded from the whole season.
Generally, no it isn't. Once a car is deemed legal for a race and the race weekend completes, that's it - the points stand. There are a few exceptions.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff