**** Abu Dhabi Grand Prix **** (contains spoilers)
Discussion
te all year.toppstuff said:
I have to agree.
Dr Z is arguing that LH's efficient driving style, where he is both faster AND uses less fuel than his teammate ( and so can be faster for longer without having to fuel save ) is a bad thing?
Bizarre logic. Hell no, its not bizarre - its just wrong !
I'm not a Hamilton fan but to insinuate that having the better driving style to suit the car is an unfair advantage isn't bias, it's just stupidty to the highest degree.Dr Z is arguing that LH's efficient driving style, where he is both faster AND uses less fuel than his teammate ( and so can be faster for longer without having to fuel save ) is a bad thing?
Bizarre logic. Hell no, its not bizarre - its just wrong !
VladD said:
But what about getting stuck behind someone and not being able to pass? I'm sure there's lots of little things you could do that wouldn't obviously get flagged.
You mean like it being really hard to overtake a caterham on a straight? 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2gbSaqqJkajprice said:
VladD said:
But what about getting stuck behind someone and not being able to pass? I'm sure there's lots of little things you could do that wouldn't obviously get flagged.
You mean like it being really hard to overtake a caterham on a straight? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ2gbSaqqJkLewis is lauded (add fernando and jenson to that) :
because they've proven to be able to change their driving styles, and get the most out of difference cars, whether that be blown diffuser, or hybrid Turbo, and no doubt a ford fiesta with a 1.6 zetec engine.
Sebastian is a 'lambasted' :
Because he's proving to the world he CAN'T, and I've no doubt things won't be changing next season.
To have 4 drivers championships to your name, and have your ass handed to you be a rookie in YOUR team, is, and should be unheard of, but it's been witnessed this season.
I hope that cleared things up for you, and you're able to (again) get decent night sleeps.
because they've proven to be able to change their driving styles, and get the most out of difference cars, whether that be blown diffuser, or hybrid Turbo, and no doubt a ford fiesta with a 1.6 zetec engine.
Sebastian is a 'lambasted' :
Because he's proving to the world he CAN'T, and I've no doubt things won't be changing next season.
To have 4 drivers championships to your name, and have your ass handed to you be a rookie in YOUR team, is, and should be unheard of, but it's been witnessed this season.
I hope that cleared things up for you, and you're able to (again) get decent night sleeps.
Dr Z said:
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
Blib said:
Dr Z said:
How ironic! The point I was making clearly illustrates the anti-Vettel bias here, and the sensitive moonies who get upset at the slightest hint of questioning the ability of Hamilton only prove the point.
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
I admire both drivers. But, Hamilton won his titles with two totally different machines.Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
joema said:
Blib said:
Dr Z said:
How ironic! The point I was making clearly illustrates the anti-Vettel bias here, and the sensitive moonies who get upset at the slightest hint of questioning the ability of Hamilton only prove the point.
Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
I admire both drivers. But, Hamilton won his titles with two totally different machines.Vettel gets the best out of the blown diffuser car with a specific driving style = one trick pony
Hamilton gets the best out of the hybrid turbo car with a specific driving style = racing god
Can't quite fathom why one gets lauded and the other is lambasted.
I kind of get the "hate" for Seb. It wasn't all his doing though, he was partnered against the very likeable MW and the team went for Seb as the number 1 driver, even when it was clear they wouldn't admit it.
His actions although total 100 percent committed to the job of winning he acted very aggressively and not very team mate like. Plus the fact his style worked so well with the car he quite often dropped the hammer off the start line and romped to the end without anyone to challenge or even keep him honest.
Whereas this year although one team once again dominated, they allowed the drivers to race and because both were able to push the cars hard we had the battle for the top spot.
As for people saying Seb was a one trick pony, TECHNICALLY he is. Hes one with one car, one team, during one set of rules and regs (with some changes granted) Lewis has won twice, in 2 different cars, with 2 different teams, against 2 very good team mates and with a vast array of different rules and regs to adhere to.
I was surprised how slow Seb was this year. We knew the power plant was going to be behind, but the be so far behind his teammate was surprising. I think he realised this and looked for the move out to give himself some breathing space. No one is now expecting him to perform well next year, as long as he is up with Kimi or beats him that’s all that’s required.
I honestly hope he finds his feet and with Ferrari mounts a decent challenge over the next few years, can only make for good tv!
His actions although total 100 percent committed to the job of winning he acted very aggressively and not very team mate like. Plus the fact his style worked so well with the car he quite often dropped the hammer off the start line and romped to the end without anyone to challenge or even keep him honest.
Whereas this year although one team once again dominated, they allowed the drivers to race and because both were able to push the cars hard we had the battle for the top spot.
As for people saying Seb was a one trick pony, TECHNICALLY he is. Hes one with one car, one team, during one set of rules and regs (with some changes granted) Lewis has won twice, in 2 different cars, with 2 different teams, against 2 very good team mates and with a vast array of different rules and regs to adhere to.
I was surprised how slow Seb was this year. We knew the power plant was going to be behind, but the be so far behind his teammate was surprising. I think he realised this and looked for the move out to give himself some breathing space. No one is now expecting him to perform well next year, as long as he is up with Kimi or beats him that’s all that’s required.
I honestly hope he finds his feet and with Ferrari mounts a decent challenge over the next few years, can only make for good tv!
DanielSan said:
toppstuff said:
I have to agree.
Dr Z is arguing that LH's efficient driving style, where he is both faster AND uses less fuel than his teammate ( and so can be faster for longer without having to fuel save ) is a bad thing?
Bizarre logic. Hell no, its not bizarre - its just wrong !
I'm not a Hamilton fan but to insinuate that having the better driving style to suit the car is an unfair advantage isn't bias, it's just stupidty to the highest degree.Dr Z is arguing that LH's efficient driving style, where he is both faster AND uses less fuel than his teammate ( and so can be faster for longer without having to fuel save ) is a bad thing?
Bizarre logic. Hell no, its not bizarre - its just wrong !
Take #2: If you give credit to Hamilton for having a driving style that enables him to be faster than his team mate and indeed the rest of the field, as it takes advantage of the engine configuration and the fuel regs, then one ought to give the same level of credit to Vettel for doing exactly the same with the aero regs of the 2009 to 2013 era. Blithely dismissing one whilst not the other is poppycock.
The "anti-Seb" sentiment (which I think is overstated anyway) would not be nearly as prevalent but for one factor - Ricciardo out-driving him all year.
In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
It will be fascinating to see how Ricciardo develops. For example, if he moves to the same team as Hamilton and outperforms him like he did Vettel, everyone will be talking about how amazing Ricciardo is, not how Vettel is less good than we all thought.
In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
It will be fascinating to see how Ricciardo develops. For example, if he moves to the same team as Hamilton and outperforms him like he did Vettel, everyone will be talking about how amazing Ricciardo is, not how Vettel is less good than we all thought.
Is it possible that even Maldenado could be WDC if he lucked into a dominant car. I mean he won a race once, so it's obvious that there's more to a WDC than simply driving...
Vettel used to be flat out through the bends where the others had to lift. This is balls, but also enabled by the car somewhat. Now he must judge how to modulate the throttle, and perhaps is struggling to adapt.
Vettel used to be flat out through the bends where the others had to lift. This is balls, but also enabled by the car somewhat. Now he must judge how to modulate the throttle, and perhaps is struggling to adapt.
Dr Z said:
Well, aren't strawmen and quoting out of context, such wonderful bedfellows. You guys have completely missed the point. Congratulations.
Take #2: If you give credit to Hamilton for having a driving style that enables him to be faster than his team mate and indeed the rest of the field, as it takes advantage of the engine configuration and the fuel regs, then one ought to give the same level of credit to Vettel for doing exactly the same with the aero regs of the 2009 to 2013 era. Blithely dismissing one whilst not the other is poppycock.
Do we know if Hamilton was using less fuel to take advantage of the regs, or has he always used less fuel? Take #2: If you give credit to Hamilton for having a driving style that enables him to be faster than his team mate and indeed the rest of the field, as it takes advantage of the engine configuration and the fuel regs, then one ought to give the same level of credit to Vettel for doing exactly the same with the aero regs of the 2009 to 2013 era. Blithely dismissing one whilst not the other is poppycock.
In other words, has he always been naturally fast? I think he has.
heebeegeetee said:
Do we know if Hamilton was using less fuel to take advantage of the regs, or has he always used less fuel?
In other words, has he always been naturally fast? I think he has.
Good question.In other words, has he always been naturally fast? I think he has.
My guess is that some of this is because he uses more rear brake bias than nico, and thus gets more out of ers, thus more power or less fuel.
Scuffers said:
heebeegeetee said:
Do we know if Hamilton was using less fuel to take advantage of the regs, or has he always used less fuel?
In other words, has he always been naturally fast? I think he has.
Good question.In other words, has he always been naturally fast? I think he has.
My guess is that some of this is because he uses more rear brake bias than nico, and thus gets more out of ers, thus more power or less fuel.
braddo said:
The "anti-Seb" sentiment (which I think is overstated anyway) would not be nearly as prevalent but for one factor - Ricciardo out-driving him all year.
In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
Also I think it's because Vettel's titles came comparatively easier compared with the absolute slog Hamilton and Rosberg just went through. Vettel was completely unchallenged by Webber in 2011 and 2013. In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
Scuffers said:
Good question.
My guess is that some of this is because he uses more rear brake bias than nico, and thus gets more out of ers, thus more power or less fuel.
I think the BBC said early on in the season that this rear brake bias was only chosen for ERS. So it is a tactic rather than natural.My guess is that some of this is because he uses more rear brake bias than nico, and thus gets more out of ers, thus more power or less fuel.
I think afew on here really find it difficult to come to terms with facts, instead look to de-valuing others that accomplished winning a wdc who achieved it by having a legitimate challenge during the season.
RenOHH said:
braddo said:
The "anti-Seb" sentiment (which I think is overstated anyway) would not be nearly as prevalent but for one factor - Ricciardo out-driving him all year.
In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
Also I think it's because Vettel's titles came comparatively easier compared with the absolute slog Hamilton and Rosberg just went through. Vettel was completely unchallenged by Webber in 2011 and 2013. In contrast, Hamilton has had the edge over all his teammates, which is no mean feat.
heebeegeetee said:
Dr Z said:
Well, aren't strawmen and quoting out of context, such wonderful bedfellows. You guys have completely missed the point. Congratulations.
Take #2: If you give credit to Hamilton for having a driving style that enables him to be faster than his team mate and indeed the rest of the field, as it takes advantage of the engine configuration and the fuel regs, then one ought to give the same level of credit to Vettel for doing exactly the same with the aero regs of the 2009 to 2013 era. Blithely dismissing one whilst not the other is poppycock.
Seb is being critised because his proven his not able to adjust and be able to beat his rookie team mate in HIS own team in different cars, whereas Lewis has proven he can, just like fernando, jenson and afew more. Take #2: If you give credit to Hamilton for having a driving style that enables him to be faster than his team mate and indeed the rest of the field, as it takes advantage of the engine configuration and the fuel regs, then one ought to give the same level of credit to Vettel for doing exactly the same with the aero regs of the 2009 to 2013 era. Blithely dismissing one whilst not the other is poppycock.
Him having 4 wdc is a joke, and he'll go down as just that.
spats said:
...
I was surprised how slow Seb was this year. We knew the power plant was going to be behind, but the be so far behind his teammate was surprising. I think he realised this and looked for the move out to give himself some breathing space. No one is now expecting him to perform well next year, as long as he is up with Kimi or beats him that’s all that’s required.
I honestly hope he finds his feet and with Ferrari mounts a decent challenge over the next few years, can only make for good tv!
Only just occurred to me! Interesting to see the 2 drivers who didn't perform as expected in the same car!I was surprised how slow Seb was this year. We knew the power plant was going to be behind, but the be so far behind his teammate was surprising. I think he realised this and looked for the move out to give himself some breathing space. No one is now expecting him to perform well next year, as long as he is up with Kimi or beats him that’s all that’s required.
I honestly hope he finds his feet and with Ferrari mounts a decent challenge over the next few years, can only make for good tv!
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