Honda Civic MB6 Brake pedal 'feedback' issue. Help please!

[Burbleboy]

I have an ongoing issue regarding my brake pedal fighting back ever so slightly under consistant braking. After the 1 second of pedal feedback, the brakes are normal. I have replaced all discs, pads and brake fluid is Motul rbf600 racing dot 4. There is no ABS light on and ABS works.

Could this be the brake master cylinder at fault that's giving me slight feedback through the pedal if the seals are away?

Any help would be appreciated.

P.s someone suggested that crimp individual brake hoses to single out the problem....however, i have braided hoses all round and can't do this!

[andyiley]

Burbleboy said:

I have an ongoing issue regarding my brake pedal fighting back ever so slightly under consistant braking. After the 1 second of pedal feedback, the brakes are normal. I have replaced all discs, pads and brake fluid is Motul rbf600 racing dot 4. There is no ABS light on and ABS works.

Could this be the brake master cylinder at fault that's giving me slight feedback through the pedal if the seals are away?

Any help would be appreciated.

P.s someone suggested that crimp individual brake hoses to single out the problem....however, i have braided hoses all round and can't do this!

I know I am being a pedantic tw@t, but your description is less than clear to me.

Is "pedal fighting back" the same as "pedal feedback"? Because it isn't!

Does "someone suggested that crimp individual brake hoses to single out the problem" mean the same as "someone suggested that crimping brake hoses one at a time may help identify the issue"?

I may suggest reading things back to yourself before posting next time to help others if you want our help.

Aside of that when was the system last bled to FULLY replace the fluid with good clean new fluid without air in the system?

[Burbleboy]

Yes sorry, meant someone crimp the hoses one at a time rather than crimping all of them, as that would cause me to crash.

The pedal feedback was a little vague. It is like the abs kicks in for a slight second. Same feeling as abs feedback. I should have made that clearer.

All the brake fluid has been renewed last month.

• edited for spelling and punctuation corrections*

[Burbleboy]

andyiley said:

I know I am being a pedantic tw@t, but your description is less than clear to me.

Is "pedal fighting back" the same as "pedal feedback"? Because it isn't!

Does "someone suggested that crimp individual brake hoses to single out the problem" mean the same as "someone suggested that crimping brake hoses one at a time may help identify the issue"?

I may suggest reading things back to yourself before posting next time to help others if you want our help.

Aside of that when was the system last bled to FULLY replace the fluid with good clean new fluid without air in the system?

I kinda thought you were going to give me some helpful PH advice but it seems you just trolled my thread and left.

[andyiley]

I take it that means you didn't read the final line of my post then?

[MintSprint]

Burbleboy said:

... It is like the abs kicks in for a slight second. Same feeling as abs feedback.

Sounds like you may have a slightly warped disc to me. The 'pulsing' you're feeling at the pedal is the pad running over the high spot.

If you have sliding calipers, then a sticking caliper slider may also exhibit the same symptom.

Edited by MintSprint on Tuesday 18th November 07:58

[Burbleboy]

andyiley said:

I take it that means you didn't read the final line of my post then?

I did read the final line in your post but it was covered by me saying all fluid was replaced with motul dot 4.

Replacing fluid is an easy task, there is no air in system as been all double checked at the time and always bleed twice to make sure.

[Burbleboy]

MintSprint said:

Burbleboy said:

... It is like the abs kicks in for a slight second. Same feeling as abs feedback.

Sounds like you may have a slightly warped disc to me. The 'pulsing' you're feeling at the pedal is the pad running over the high spot.

If you have sliding calipers, then a sticking caliper slider may also exhibit the same symptom.

Edited by MintSprint on Tuesday 18th November 07:58

As stated in original post mate, all discs and pads been replaced.

[Burbleboy]

Burbleboy said:

MintSprint said:

Burbleboy said:

... It is like the abs kicks in for a slight second. Same feeling as abs feedback.

Sounds like you may have a slightly warped disc to me. The 'pulsing' you're feeling at the pedal is the pad running over the high spot.

If you have sliding calipers, then a sticking caliper slider may also exhibit the same symptom.

Edited by MintSprint on Tuesday 18th November 07:58

As stated in original post mate, all discs and pads been replaced. However, I shall recheck the sliders although they were greased at time of pads and were free.

[MintSprint]

Burbleboy said:

...all discs and pads been replaced.

Then possibly the hub faces are not completely true, or there is some contamination trapped between the hub face and the disc mounting that is making the disc sit at a very slight angle, so that it is acting as a 'swash plate' against the caliper as the disc rotates.

You have, of course, checked the run out with a dial gauge?

But even when run-out is slight - well with manufacturer tolerance - I find that sticking sliders would give the symptoms you report. The high points on the disc (there are always some - no disc is absolutely perfect) repeatedly knock back the caliper and under light braking it will hold off until it drops back with a jerk onto the low point...causing the 'pulsing' effect through the pedal.

If you're on sliding calipers, then partially seized slide pins would be my first suspect.

Edited by MintSprint on Tuesday 18th November 10:25

[Burbleboy]

Good info there. I will check sliders again and then see if hub is distorted in any way as the discs and fluid can be ruled out I think. Cheers

[MintSprint]

First thing is to check the disc run-out with a dial gauge (which, in an ideal world, you should have done when fitting new discs, anyway).

[Burbleboy]

MintSprint said:

First thing is to check the disc run-out with a dial gauge (which, in an ideal world, you should have done when fitting new discs, anyway).

I have never seen ANYONE using a dial gauge after fitting new discs, regardless if they had a problem or not!! Will take your advice though. Cheers

[MintSprint]

No, most don't bother, obviously, which is why I said 'in an ideal world'.

But the pedal pulsing you are getting is almost certainly being fed back from slight run-out on the disc, in some shape or form, so a dial gauge is the first step in diagnosing it.

Do you get any simultaneous feedback at all through the steering?

[Burbleboy]

None through the steering mate. Pedal only pulses under consistent braking, e.g coming to a roundabout off a dual carriageway. But it doesn't do it all the time or at low speed.

[MintSprint]

OK, good. That probably rules one other potential possibility, which would have been that you have some play in wheelbearings, ball joints and/or track rod ends that was allowing the hub and disc to 'shimmy' slightly, relative to the caliper.

Only other thing I could think of, in that case, would be some sort of tyre defect or wheel balance issue, but again I'd expect them to show up as a more general vibration or feedback through the steering as well.

My money's still on sticky caliper sliders.

[Burbleboy]

I appreciate all your input. It has put me in the right direction for things to check. That's what I was after on PH. Constructive advice and avoid getting into petty conversations from trolls. One out of two ain't bad.

[andyiley]

Burbleboy said:

andyiley said:

I take it that means you didn't read the final line of my post then?

I did read the final line in your post but it was covered by me saying all fluid was replaced with motul dot 4.

Replacing fluid is an easy task, there is no air in system as been all double checked at the time and always bleed twice to make sure.

Well, in that case I am truly sorry to not be able to come up with any more suggestions...... Or perhaps you would have preferred that I come up with the random useless cr@p that followed my post!

[Burbleboy]

andyiley said:

Burbleboy said:

andyiley said:

I take it that means you didn't read the final line of my post then?

I did read the final line in your post but it was covered by me saying all fluid was replaced with motul dot 4.

Replacing fluid is an easy task, there is no air in system as been all double checked at the time and always bleed twice to make sure.

Well, in that case I am truly sorry to not be able to come up with any more suggestions...... Or perhaps you would have preferred that I come up with the random useless cr@p that followed my post!

It just seemed as though you were only interested in pulling me up for my post and not really helping. When changing fluid/bleeding brakes it is common sense to make sure there is no air in the system. I would have mentioned that in my post had there been any chance of air in the system but i didn't.

I used to like browsing the Gassing Station but PH has become shockingly bad for pedantic (seems to be the favourite word on here) and unhelpful members who deem it ok to abuse and make fun of every mistake others makes. I'm just ranting as you did nothing wrong. Just seemed as if you were having a pop and then left the thread hanging as you took days to reply when others kept the help going within minutes.

Sorry if this seems harsh, just how i viewed it. Cheers

[MintSprint]

andyiley said:

.... Or perhaps you would have preferred that I come up with the random useless cr@p that followed my post!

Since I assume this part of your comment was directed at my posts, Andy, can we be clear that what you are suggesting is that the OP's problem of ABS-like pulsing feedback through the pedal is, in your opinion, related to an improperly bled system, not to any issues of disc run-out?